NO-MIC Squad leaders are they a problem?

[Kvsh_420]

I squad lead alot and its annoying to have to deal with another squad leader that doesn't have a Mic or worse be in a squad with a squad lead that doesn't have a mic. I don't think anyone has a problem with No-Mics but squad leaders should be able to relay real time orders, Coordinate with assets and other squads and most importantly update everyone about the situation on battlefield as events on fold all of which is best done with a Mic. I would like to know if this bothers anyone else and if it does can there be a rule that states you can only lead squads if you have a mic.
Note:-There are players that can somewhat lead without a mic through typing but this isn't anywhere near as effective in my opinion. 

[=VG= Skitalez]

I can't imagine this game without mumble and communication at all

[=VG= Zeee]

37 minutes ago, Kvsh_420 said:

I don't think anyone has a problem with No-Mics

You would be surprised

37 minutes ago, Kvsh_420 said:

There are players that can somewhat lead without a mic through typing but this isn't anywhere near as effective in my opinion.

There are players who can lead with no mic and players who lead no mic squads somewhat effective so would feel real shitty telling a good player they cant lead/play the asset at all given there is no replacement SL or even taking the squad from someone for said reason.

This is going to be really good or really bad 50/50 in my book thats my peace.

 

[=VG= Skitalez]

There are players without a mic who have been on the server for a very long time and know the mechanics of the game very well. Playing under their command in the squad - you intuitively understand each other, with such a microphone is not necessary)

 

 

[TH0M]

I agree with Zee, and i think this topic has been brought up before in some older posts, as long as the squad leader doesn't hinder the progress of the team itself, then it's all good in my book. Sometimes i got connection issue mid game as well so i can't use my mic, and have to rely on in game chat (that's an exception and more of a technical problem i think). Other times you got no-mic SL going rogue, skipping flags, kidnapping their whole squad with them, firing mortar without saying anything, not helping the team defend / attack, etc.. In these cases the problem is not having no mic, but having no will to communicate, and in my opinion, that's the main problem.

[=VG= Zeee]

I remember there being something along these lines in the rules not long ago but every time i look at the rules i feel its slightly different and is no longer there i remember this because i brought it up as it was already kinda in the rules just no one used it.

I dont know when it was changed and cant reference it sorry.

[=VG= 0100011000101]

if you have a suqad full of newbies and nobody communicates (incl. SL) that sucks. but I have to agree with skitalez. i often play in squads without a mic or where it is rarely used. if everyone knows what to do, you don't need any orders or a SL. Also there are a few players without mic who hold their squads together pretty well... it doesn't bother me at all as long as it doesn't interfere with the game. At assets squads it's something different, but even then it's enough for me if the SLs is typing in the chat... there are players who can type better when flying than I speak English in the game...

as long as there are no complaints, I actually don't interfere. I warn/resign enough anyway...^^

[=VG= BLuDKLoT]

You can't lead a squad without communicating this should be a rule in writing if it's not already which I don't think it is. No mic - No SL! There is a difference between having a mic and not speaking because your squad are all salty dogs that know what to do, but not having a mic and being unable to lead makes the squad ineffective. Especially when getting orders from command or trying to coordinate with other squads, CAS, etc.. 

[=VG= 0100011000101]

1 minute ago, =VG= BLuDKLoT said:

No mic - No SL! 

Sorry but I won't start resigning SLs just because they don't have a mic. that would also very often empty the server by a third because you are often get kicked out of a squad if you dont have a mic and then you only can open your own squad... only to get resigned again.

if it were done that way, I wouldn't be here.

[=VG= Acro1]

As a squad leader it's much preferred to have a microphone, but not disaster if you don't have one. Think of the succesful 'inf no mic' squads for example, that can work pretty well. This is the reason we don't enforce a strict 'all SLs must have microphones' policy. I myself lead the occasional Trans/NoMicInf squad and it works out pretty well. NoMic squads are a tad slower than VOIP squads, but that's far from problematic. IMO, forcing the use of microphones for squad leads will improve anything, as it will also shrink our pool of good squad leaders that are willing to 'do the job'.

When you experience problems with a no-mic user, it's usually the person himself and not the lack of a mic. Whenever I play after 22:00 I cant use mic because my family sleeps, and I've never had complaints. Compare this to someone like PRBF2TROJAN (or whatever his name is) who doesnt have a mic AND doesn't communicate. Those are the problematic cases.

 

1 hour ago, TH0M said:

Other times you got no-mic SL going rogue, skipping flags, kidnapping their whole squad with them, firing mortar without saying anything, not helping the team defend / attack, etc.. In these cases the problem is not having no mic, but having no will to communicate, and in my opinion, that's the main problem.

If there's any doubt, let this memo clear it up: For squad leaders, microphones are not required but communication IS REQUIRED, and non-communicating squad leaders ARE breaking our rules! Players can report their SL's if they don't talk/type at all, and they should be dealt with and resigned if necessary. Exchange of info within and between squads is the backbone of our beautiful game, so we can't have squad leaders fucking off doing their own thing. Personally I'd also make it a habit to remove non-responsive players from your squad, so that eventually they'll get bored and leave. Harsh as it may sound, there are thousands of games available for the zero-comms type people. PR is not one of them.

 

Important footnote:

@Zeee makes a good point: certain rules are not always clear, and some info is lost in versions or website updates. I'll have a look at our official PRCOOP rules page, and make sure to update it accordingly. Thanks for bringing this up!

[=VG= BLuDKLoT]

Sorry but you'll do whatever the rules say you will or you wont be an admin in the server. The rules aren't for you to decide whether to enforce or not. Whether we make this a rule or not is what we're talking about. I don't think you should SL without a mic. I've been doing this long enough to know that much. I can't even play as ground pounder without a mic let alone try to SL. I understand when the server is slow then we tend to be more lenient about certain rules but as a standard for a full server this shouldn't be the case. Just another reason why I don't play PR as much because I see this shit happening and it annoys the hell outta me. PR is reality based game. You are not going into battle without comms. .02  

[=VG= Zeee]

22 minutes ago, =VG= Acro1 said:

I'll have a look at our official PRCOOP rules page, and make sure to update it accordingly

Could the rules be something you can follow for updates/changes?

Edit: My blind ass didn't see it sorry ignore me
@System ty

[System]

4 minutes ago, Zeee said:

Could the rules be something you can follow for updates/changes?

There is a follow button on the top of the page.

Also this just sounds like a bad SL/player problem, and not a real communication issue, e.g. if I know that my trans pilot has no microphone and he is an SL, I'll just give him instructions on what to do/tell him the info he needs to know using simple yes/no questions. It's not 99% of players who don't have mics it's a very few who don't have them and are willing to work with the team.

[=VG= Acro1]

@Zeee I've updated the PR COOP RULES  page to include that squad leaders must communicate. Literally everyone already agreed on this, but it slipped through somewhere and wasn't written down 'officially'. This is now set in stone .

I'll have a look at the rules page and see if we can make them more skimmable and easy to read. Like @System said, you have a follow button at the top of the page that notifies you upon change.

[System]

3 minutes ago, =VG= Acro1 said:

@Zeee I've updated the PR COOP RULES  page to include that squad leaders must communicate. Literally everyone already agreed on this, but it slipped through somewhere and wasn't written down 'officially'. This is now set in stone .

I'll have a look at the rules page and see if we can make them more skimmable and easy to read. Like @System said, you have a follow button at the top of the page that notifies you upon change.

Hmmm, does the button work for edits, because I didn't get a popup even though I am following it, and you edited them?

[=VG= SemlerPDX]

11 minutes ago, System said:

Hmmm, does the button work for edits, because I didn't get a popup even though I am following it, and you edited them?

I'm not sure that follow would work for edits, that is typically for things like comments or reviews, and VG Wiki database doesn't have those things.

And YES - if people were getting notifications for every edit, it would be MADDENING.  That's not exactly what the VG Wiki is for - would be better to make any kind of announcement post to redirect attention to a new rule, as we've done in the past with the changes to the 'No Smoke' rule (now that bots cannot see through certain smoke)

 

Thanks @=VG= Acro1 for taking care of that update.

[R-CON LangMaster]

I got my own opinion, the longer i play the more i meet a games where i am just talking to my self in squad lead chat, and even tho they can hear you as example trojan he rosponds with a command menu there is 0 intel coming back to you about battle field and what in the actual fuck is going on in there.

Same goes for vehicles i always leave a squad if the person i am going to play with the vehicle has no microphone, i won't kick him i just don't have the mood to be sitting with someone in a vehicle for 1 hour that does not have microphone, it is very annoying and exhausting.

I don't mind people in infantry if they don't have microphone as usually there is 50-50% people who have mike, at least they follow my orders.

But if i would be honest, if you don't have microphone, get out of the squad lead.

[=VG= keed]

I've used to ask the entire squad if their leader was communicating. If not, I tell them to form a new squad with someone willing or be disbanded.

It offloads the solution finding onto the squad itself, and not us.

 

[=VG= Skiddles]

For me, there is nothing more frustrating than someone making a squad and not leading it. I think not having a mic in this game is a disadvantage to the player whom doesn't have one and every other member on the team with a few exceptions. There are a handful of no mic people who are among our strongest players. 
I think admins should encourage players without mic's to not lead. Set up the server to regularly display a message about the importance of having a microphone similar to the one that thanks people for playing on the VG server. 

[TH0M]

17 hours ago, =VG= Acro1 said:

PRBF2TROJAN

 

15 hours ago, LangMaster said:

as example trojan

This guy got a mic, but seldom used it, even when he's a SL, he'd talk back if you're persistent enough in getting his response, dunno why..
 

IMHO enforcing communication with whatever means possible (mumble, chat, radio command) is better than enforcing mic, especially (or maybe, only) on low population hours because:
-most people are just not up for the task
-or they don't know how to do it (yet)
-or no one else is willing to be one BUT the no-mic's gotta do it

for example:

 

Low pop
SQ 1 (inf)
AAAAA as SL (no-mic),
8 random people, none has trans experience whatsoever

SQ 2 (trans)
BBBBB as SL (yes-mic)
1 regular player, able to do trans

for a total of 9 people
Muttrah inf

 

-it'll be easy enough if all 9 are regulars, play the map with maybe 2 inf SQ only without trans, but not so much if it's just a group of newcomers / non regulars
-i'd rather have BBBBB stay on SQ 2 rather than on SQ 1, just for the fact that it'll be much harder to play the map without trans
-maybe later BBBB can SL the inf SQ, once all the necessary drops have been made, maybe he'll need to resign, make trans, then rejoin inf, but it's not the point, and it's tedious as well
-as Acro said, some regulars / capable SL with mic sometimes just weren't able to use their mic, for whatever reason
-i've seen more capable and teamwork oriented no-mic SL doing more for the team compared to some yes-mic SL (and they are usually good enough to know to hand the SL pos. over to someone who's got a mic and will do a better job when the option is available, for example Waltstein)

-if yes-mic SL was to be put into the official rules, can we at least put these into consideration (even though i still think yes-com is still better and leave the rest for in-game admins to decide depending on the server situation)
 

[=VG= BLuDKLoT]

When I play PR my squad is always number one and me personally am usually top of the board unless some crazy good CAS is on deck.. because I lead my squad.

People love to be led and commanded, organized, given tasks, missions, AO to protect, orient this way, put the SAW here, go blow that up, etc.. You can't do any of that without comms. People join for that very thing or they would go play CoD where it doesn't matter. This is just one aspect of PR that players love. Being led by competent SL that understands the game. This is a team play based game. Not an individual imma do what I want kinds game. You need to team up and play as a squad. You can't control your squad if you can't speak to them. If you want to play something that requires no thought or controlled action go play CoD it's great for that, but in PR we do things different and part of that is the immersion you get from having a mic. Can we set up no mic squads? Sure, but why? It takes away from the point of this game and I'm telling you nobody likes playing with a dipshit SL that doesn't shoot, move, and communicate. When I SL I'm not even engaging enemy because I'm so busy directing my squad. We also need to keep in mind we get lots of newbies and we need to be consistent with the rules we enforce and how we present PR to the people that join. We need to enforce team play and avoid the imma play how I want bullshit and not talk to anyone and just go where I want, etc. Communication has always been the bedrock of PR imo.     

[=VG= SemlerPDX]

18 hours ago, =VG= 0100011000101 said:

Sorry but I won't start resigning SLs just because they don't have a mic. that would also very often empty the server by a third because you are often get kicked out of a squad if you dont have a mic and then you only can open your own squad... only to get resigned again.

if it were done that way, I wouldn't be here.

Okay - slow your roll cowboy.  You just jumped to 1000% during a mere discussion about the rules, drawing some line in the sand as if we asked you to spend your time joining each and every squad to be sure they have a mic, and if not, resign them.  NO ONE SAID THAT!  You are good people, we all know that.  Be good Admins and make sure that our server is not disrupted by squads with no real leader.  There are OBVIOUSLY exceptions, as BLuDKLoT mentioned, "...when the server is slow then we tend to be more lenient about certain rules but as a standard for a full server this shouldn't be the case."  As an Admin here, you must be aware of these nuanced exceptions, and when NOT to go gung-ho on every single perceived rule violation like a man on a mission.  Take time to evaluate what is required, how the entire server is running, how many players and how many squads, who is doing what and whether it is detracting from or adhering to the spirit as well as the letter of our rules.

There are a finite number of squads that can be created in any given match.  The rule is very clear that if no-Mic (non communicative) Squad Leaders are taking soldiers away from the front, are absorbing too many players with mics that can and should benefit from a properly lead squad, THEN you should evaluate the situation, and if it is detracting from the goals and intent of our cooperation, teamwork, and coordination based gameplay, then they should be resigned.

If some single rando no-mic SL is running around the front lines with a couple squad members, and then the rest of the server is filled with proper Squads being lead by SL's with mics or communicating properly, then who cares about that single rando SL and his no-mic squad .... but if we have a deficit of players due to those players being part of multiple no-mic SL Squads, it would be wise to enforce this rule to get the server back to how it was designed to run:  A handful of regular players (with mics) leading Squads of various types for players with (or without) mics to join.

[=VG= Sausag3]

At the end of the day gentlemen, This game is not COD, not Battlefield (Even though it's based on it), this is PROJECT REALITY. The whole concept of this game is engraved from the title itself. IRL you don't see squad commanders, platoon commanders etc. lead their troops without saying a single word, you don't see them text or send a formal letter to their troops during battle either. Because it is simply ineffective and unreliable.

[=VG= =AMPH=]

Its better 6 peoples with no mic who knows what to do (know how to use desired kit),

Than 8 with mic, and that moment when everybody talk at same time while playng their own game with random kits...

[=VG= Batmeme]

with or without a mic if you know the game  all good by me and as long that people with no mics are using the chat and talking with other players via chat or using the ingame voice lines it's fine but some won't even talk