[serverside script] restrict named squad creation & asset use

[=VG= XOR]

 

[NOTE TO MODERATOR] FEEL FREE TO MERGE THIS WITH ABOVE THREAD

I don't mean to resurrect a locked thread, but the issue raised was valid and since the dominant response was to BUY A BETTER PC,i thought it warrants at least one practical solution. And yes i'm one of those people who load slow, but mine is more a matter of choice, as i run a heavy mix of reshade & sweetfx which makes pr rebuild shaders on  every load, similar to what it normally does when video settings get changed, but not every can afford to just choose to load faster,so...

Attached below is a simple server side script that:

• Resigns any named asset squad(TANK/CAS/APC) created before 5 minutes since round start, excluding trans.
• Ejects/Resigns any Player  attempting to operate any named squad asset(TANK/CAS/APC) before 5 minutes since round start, excluding trans.
• Resigns any player attempting to operate any named squad asset in improperly named 'named squads'(CAS,TRANS,APC,TANK)',i.e as long as squad name contains a named squad substring, it's valid.

*much like the default !resign command, it kills player to resign, so comply or die.

*10 second warning issued before resigning squad or player.

*it's fully functional but might need some of the warning messages reformulated(i was a bit high when i wrote it;)) and debug messages commented out at most.

@Sciddles @Connorsponner01 @=VG= Acro1 @=VG= Melon Muncher 

 

namedSquadRestrictions.py

[=VG= Connor]

I don't know exactly at what time the server registers as "Round Start", if it's when the first player joins or another factor but 5 mins seems a little too long. I don't know what the average load time is, and yes I know this is to compensate for the slow loaders but maybe it is a tad too long? I have no idea though it might work fine at 5 mins, but either way I am glad you came up with something so thanks!

[=VG= Nyther]

If you exclude TRANS you will be making a single exception, it also wont stop the fast loading players from taking it first.

I feel like if you just eject people trying to man the vehicles too soon it will confuse new players and make them think the server is broken or something and probably end up leaving.

Also, if people will be forced to wait to create asset squads that means the ones who load first and really want those assets will just sit at base with the squad creating tab open ready to hit "create" while the enemy just keeps advancing, wont they?

All that is just what I think it will happen, but either way I am against that sort of change and I am even one of those who loads slow.

Btw, wasn't there a whole drama about servers running custom scripts and code when they shouldn't?

[R-CON LangMaster]

The thing is, sometimes you just need the asset right away in 5 minutes, those bots ain't gonna wait for you or do they? There are some maps that just needs the assets right away and definitely cannot be played without them.

If you would make a script that would make bots not spawn for that time, and probably some kind of a counter at top left corner as votes have so people are not that confused, i would not probably mind, even tho i am the one that is loading faster..

[=VG= XOR]

1 hour ago, Connorsponner01 said:

I don't know exactly at what time the server registers as "Round Start", if it's when the first player joins or another factor but 5 mins seems a little too long. I don't know what the average load time is, and yes I know this is to compensate for the slow loaders but maybe it is a tad too long? I have no idea though it might work fine at 5 mins, but either way I am glad you came up with something so thanks!

RoundStart is basically map load and it lines up with round timer, such that at 3:55:00 for example squad creation is allowed and it doesn't have to be 5min, it can dynamically be modified on player count if you so choose.

58 minutes ago, =VG= Nyther said:

If you exclude TRANS you will be making a single exception, it also wont stop the fast loading players from taking it first.

I feel like if you just eject people trying to man the vehicles too soon it will confuse new players and make them think the server is broken or something and probably end up leaving.

Also, if people will be forced to wait to create asset squads that means the ones who load first and really want those assets will just sit at base with the squad creating tab open ready to hit "create" while the enemy just keeps advancing, wont they?

All that is just what I think it will happen, but either way I am against that sort of change and I am even one of those who loads slow.

Trans will always be the exception:)

 

You do get a 10sec clearly worded warning before being resigned.

 

And as for those waiting on the timer, it's easy, you can configure it to adapt to player count with an rng for a slight randomisation, should they choose to wait, let them how long they wait, is anyone's guess...

1 hour ago, =VG= Nyther said:

Btw, wasn't there a whole drama about servers running custom scripts and code when they shouldn't?

All I'll say on this is that nothing in this  script constitutes a breach of server license, and won't require passworded servers.

 

42 minutes ago, LangMaster said:

The thing is, sometimes you just need the asset right away in 5 minutes, those bots ain't gonna wait for you or do they? There are some maps that just needs the assets right away and definitely cannot be played without them.

If you would make a script that would make bots not spawn for that time, and probably some kind of a counter at top left corner as votes have so people are not that confused, i would not probably mind, even tho i am the one that is loading faster..

Only one problem with that, only way to prevent bots from spawning is to prevent players doing the same & so, not ideal. Besides I see nothing wrong with bots getting a handicap, you have a brain, they don't, so make the most of it, I say 😏

[R-CON LangMaster]

It's a great idea don't get me wrong i don't mind hard maps neither giving bots handicap, but some maps would be lost just because of that, omaha beach is a great example where if you lose the first push, you are screwed, i don't wanna say the tanks do alot there they die pretty quickly but sometimes they are very strategic asset to at least the first push and keeping the mg nests dead, same with al basrah there is village and the vcp where the apcs just rush at start of the game, if the apcs wouldn't be there the vcp and village would get overrun by techies.

 

And i am sure there is alot of maps that i have forgoten now that are counting on the assets.

[=VG= Nyther]

7 minutes ago, X0R said:

should they choose to wait, let them how long they wait, is anyone's guess...

I assume you meant "how long they want to"

But what I meant wasn't how they are gonna try to take advantage of the system, it's how the they gonna put everyone else in disadvantage, with those players waiting at spawn to yoink the squads as soon as they can it will make so we have less players in the front as infantry doing a weak push.

I like the points you are making but I still disagree with that whole plan.

[=VG= XOR]

@LangMaster compromises are the way of life;)

 

@=VG= Nyther  it's simply the least worst option to how things are atm.

 

And I missed a comma, 'should they choose to wait, let them, how EVER long they wait, is anyone's guess'.. late night...

[R-CON LangMaster]

This is sadly just a Project Reality Coop, i am a big fan of every thing realistic but there is a reason i am playing exactly this, just to be put into a semirealistic action very quickly, i love arma and stuff but those games cannot be played all day long, they eat alot of time just because of this "briefing time". *and walking*

This game is a very limited i think by some options, but... we should probably make some custom maps, and probably make some kind of weekly rotation, make an event server once a weekend, and let people take assets here on the forum, i would be down for making some custom asset maps and i am sure it would stack up after a while giving us much more space of what would be played

[=VG= XOR]

@LangMaster I really hope you're not suggesting, waiting 5 minutes is untenable for coop... I get what you mean though, it gets old fast,

[=VG= Connor]

4 minutes ago, LangMaster said:

This is sadly just a Project Reality Coop, i am a big fan of every thing realistic but there is a reason i am playing exactly this, just to be put into a semirealistic action very quickly, i love arma and stuff but those games cannot be played all day long, they eat alot of time just because of this "briefing time". *and walking*

I don't think comparing the briefing time in Arma to the briefing in PR is a fair comparison. briefing in PR isn't really a briefing at all, just a small wait period for slow loading players a chance to join Squads. If you play deployment you will understand.

[R-CON LangMaster]

I have said my words, i guess i would not mind some kind of briefing time to help out people with pc problems, as well if it does not bring some chaos to the server it self and would be acceptable for the gameplay it self as i mentioned some maps problems.

I guess we are gonna get to the good old days where you waited for all the players load up in loading screens of league of legends, i am hoping to see some leaderboard and names of players with % so you know which player is playing on toaster.

I am obviously just kiding, i am sure it is very frustrating to not being able to play any asset because of that, but let high staff tell their opinions i am just a pawn here.

[=VG= Connor]

The only issue I have with this idea is that it would definitely take some trial and error to get it perfect and that will definitely cause some frustration to new and common players. 

 

If there was a test environment away from the main server then that would be great but of course in reality we don’t know how many people are for or against this idea anyways.

[=VG= Nyther]

I am pretty sure we have a test server for such things. I think it was mainly used for testing events

[=VG= Connor]

Yeah but again, we don’t know how many people are for or against this so would it be worth testing in the first place? Who knowsss

[=VG= SemlerPDX]

5 hours ago, LangMaster said:

those bots ain't gonna wait for you or do they?

No, they most certainly are not.  Not everything that works well for Deployment will work well for COOP.

Add some hard set timer for assets is just asking for fast loaders to form a line at the assets they want.  Slow loaders would be at the back of that line regardless of any delay time.  
NO forming lines by rules?  No matter, fast loaders will have the most accuracy setting of a personal timer on their phone, and then be in the unofficial not-a-line to get their favorite asset anyway.

All the while, the entire match getting thrown off depending on the map/vehicles on it, where those who know they wish to play as armor or w/e will wait around doing nothing, or will be distracted on the frontlines and at the holy-time-of-claiming, where SO many Inf. squads would be losing leaders/members to the "great rush back to Main" to choose the squad/vehicles they ACTUALLY would prefer to use on that map.

AFAIK It's a can of worms we are not prepared to open at this time for our PR COOP Server.

@X0R I must say, though, very great and thoughtful work with your Python script there...  Don't want you to think this sort of initiative is not appreciated, because it is, but it's just not a solution that has a consensus among the Head Admins or the Server Managers for VG PR COOP (edit: particularly, replies/notes from @=VG= Melon Muncher had opposed this, iirc, which is why I posted this, only to get confused by Melon's reply below FYSA).

 Thanks, again!

[=VG= Melon Muncher]

Love it, can definitely ease up some work for admins and stuff.  Can we make it easier for suitable squad names to be added? Like CAS, Cobra, Ah1z etc?

[TEDF]

Why do we have to overcomplicate things that don't need overcomplicating? Why after 10+ years is this suddenly such an issue? Yes, it sucks to have 5 minute loading times ( trust me, I know the pain), but that doesn't mean that other players should be penalized for that. 

[=VG= Connor]

1 hour ago, =VG= TEDF said:

Why do we have to overcomplicate things that don't need overcomplicating? Why after 10+ years is this suddenly such an issue? Yes, it sucks to have 5 minute loading times ( trust me, I know the pain), but that doesn't mean that other players should be penalized for that. 

I dont think it’s necessarily over complicated, COOP just makes it seem that way as it isn’t built in to it like it is in deployment. We could easily go without this whole thing and it wouldn’t really change much and all the slow loaders would just get on with it like they have for 10+ years.

But nothing is wrong with changing things with great ideas just because it has not been changed before. That’s not how the world goes around otherwise we would still be stuck in the stone ages aye?

Also I don't think this is "suddenly" an issue, it has probably been brought up many times throughout the years but no real solution to it until now

[=VG= XOR]

@=VG= TEDF 

what @Connorsponner01 said & not doing something because you've gotten by not having done it for any length of time is an interesting concept shall we say. Though I do understand your apprehension.

 

@=VG= Melon Muncher

Can do, I'll update the post when I get home.

 

@=VG= SemlerPDX

I especially get the concern with the 'rush back to main', I just figured I'd posit a solution to the questions & suggestions posted in the linked thread, that also consequentially does the same thing delayed asset spawn does across all maps, I didn't necessarily post this as an actionable solution,but as a actionable reference point if nothing else, as the only alternative I'm hearing seems to be buy a better pc.

So if i may, is there in your opinion an acceptable systemic solution to slow loaders, than having others reserve slots for them? 

 

Regardless, appreciate you taking a look.

Cheers & Good day. 

[Golden]

14 hours ago, Connorsponner01 said:

The only issue I have with this idea is that it would definitely take some trial and error to get it perfect and that will definitely cause some frustration to new and common players. 

 

If there was a test environment away from the main server then that would be great but of course in reality we don’t know how many people are for or against this idea anyways.

I'm sure it'll be a shock if it gets implemented, but people will adjust. It will be a wrench in the spokes of what I like to call SOP for PR. The "usual" routine that goes about at the beginning of every round, on every map, but people will adapt no doubt. I like the idea of giving people with slower load times a chance to get to the assets faster.

 

I think it'll be interesting to see 3 CAS/Tank/APC squads created at the beginning of a round because everyone and their mom will be diving for the heavy assets lol.

 

I remember the rush to type squad names and claim the assets at the end of the squad timer on deployment...

 

Good times.

[=VG= XOR]

@=VG= Melon Muncher check attachment, updated.

And since the dominant complaint seems to be 'the masses' being penalized for slow loaders, I've updated the timer(but not the notification message, i leave that to whomever chooses to use this,if at all), it now uses dynamic assetdelay based on number of players relative to the number of bots, which for reference computes to: 75sec/1.15minutes If 1 player(Minimum),  375sec/6.25minutes If typical 25player population, 600sec/10minutes If 40 players(Maximum) & everything in between, assuming 40bots, PER DEFAULT playerCountMultiplier value of 10. Simply change the multiplier to reduce the relative time per player count, to what ever you deem reasonable,setting playerCountMultiplier  to 5 for example will set the max delay in a full server to 5minutes instead of 10minutes at the default value of 10...

And if so inclined you can just try it for yourselves, copy script to 'mod\pr\python\game' & add to 'mod\pr\python\game\__init__.py':

import namedSquadRestrictions
namedSquadRestrictions.init()

 

[=VG= SemlerPDX]

On 10/11/2020 at 11:06 PM, X0R said:

So if i may, is there in your opinion an acceptable systemic solution to slow loaders, than having others reserve slots for them?

Not really, no.  It's an issue as old as the VG PR COOP Server.  We've been down this road countless times.  Any suggestions or ideas seem to disregard many of the concerns I brought up in my previous reply.

Automating things like acceptable squad names seems very smart.  Varying any delays based upon number of players relative to bots seems smart.  Delaying use of certain assets because some people have slower load-in times (and by proxy, slower program drive) does not seem so smart.  And those who are smart (and fast loading) will still find ways to do exactly what they are currently doing inside any new system that has ever been proposed, including this one.  Scripting is definitely the solution, in some way, but I would assume the ONLY way would be for the entire match (including Bots) to be frozen until the last human has loaded in, not including new players just joining I would assume.  Why not that?  Well, I could imagine some serious hate emerging for those "slow loaders" holding up the match.  Some loaders are slow because of a choice to use enhancements like ENB, etc.  Every solution seems to have it's game-breaking drawbacks, this is just another example.  IMHO, there IS no solution except tolerance.

[=VG= Acro1]

@X0R Sorry for the late reply.

I'm a fan of acceptable asset squad names. This could indeed streamline admin stuff and prevent asset use in wrong squads.

I'm no fan of timers at start. Like TED said, that's punishing fastloaders for having a better computer. Slow loaders can take more than 5 minutes to load and many go AFK whilst in the loading screen. Those who really want the asset will have timers or other loopholes, and nobody joins the front lines for only 5 minutes. Those who do will have to retreat so we lose a bunch of frontline infantry. They have go to back to main, grab their vehicles and return to the front. This operation takes several minutes during which no fire support is given.

As said above, forcing timers will unintentionally lead to slow loaders getting 'blamed' for this new waiting time. This effect is both toxic in nature and unavoidable, and a big reason not to implement this kind of system.

Repeating what Semler said: The most viable solution is tolerance and community. Have slow loaders ask fasties to reserve a slot, or to reserve the squad for them. You'd be surprised how many will happily oblige  .

That Python script is neat though, and again I'm a fan of exploring the idea of acceptable squad names. Great work! Do explore that squad name stuff with Melon!

[ZZANG1847]

If you want to man heavy assets, please follow one of these suggestions:

1) Get/build a better PC with faster loading time,

2) Change your ISP that doesn't hinder your performance because someone's using the internet too,

3) Get to know frequent/fast-loading players to reserve a seat for you,

4) Be really good at playing these assets so that people know when to give you a seat no matter what,

and most importantly......

5) Don't run a script that slows your loading time because it is not a requirement to play PR COOP.

 

PR COOP may be flawed in more ways than you could imagine, but there is nothing wrong with the loading speed. This has never been an issue in Deployment and I frankly don't see why we're even having this discussion over and over again. There are ways to mitigate the slow loading issues, and running an additional script that hinders what other players can do ONLY BECAUSE someone's not getting their fair share of playing heavy assets is not a good enough excuse.

Regarding the acceptable squad names..... I believe that's more of a micromanagement, rather than a good idea, but I believe that's a matter of personal opinion.