Hovering Harriers

[=VG= keed]

I wanted to gauge acceptance of players attacking the enemy while in VTOL (hovering) mode and have a discussion. How do you guys feel about that?

(Landing is of course not in question.)

[=VG= STARK]

I think its ok at range . We don`t want to end up like this .

 

[=VG= Acro1]

I'm a fan, it allows for very precise insanely-powered CAS when requested, on those maps where that's welcome. Whilst hovering you're pretty vulnerable, which brings a good balance IMO.

[ZZANG1847]

I haven't played PR COOP for a while at this point so I don't know if they fixed the issue, but are they still not targeted by inf/armor on Pavlovsk Bay? If not, the issue is that they're just sniping bots from a distance, making the match super boring until last few flags.

If they can be shot down without a designated anti-air asset, then going VTOL is basically a suicide run, since infantry with rifles can take down the asset pretty easily before the jet can get out of the way.

[R-CON LangMaster]

In all honesty, i hate it actually and it looks absolutely hillarious when it's dropping bombs, it's like that trans chopper pilot that keeps hovering right next to you asking if you need transport every 10 seconds and you cannot hear shit.

[=VG= Zeee]

Fine with me I don't even know how many maps we get it on all I know is Pavlosk std shouldn't be used as an example because on that layer the bots don't like to spawn on the flags with or without the harrier that layer is easy because of it.

I remember when @=VG= Melon Muncher made it so bots didn't leave emplacements when players were not nearby so aa was always active and smacked cas more often not sure if its a thing still.

[=VG= XOR]

7 hours ago, =VG= Acro1 said:

I'm a fan, it allows for very precise insanely-powered CAS when requested, on those maps where that's welcome. Whilst hovering you're pretty vulnerable, which brings a good balance IMO.

As am I, but harriers are op in coop period if you half know what you're doing cos the only thing to worry about is AA & pco gunners.

 

So I say @=VG= Melon Muncher gets out of his cave & implements the config that makes all bot inf & vehicles shoot at the harrier, cos it was fun for the very brief period it was implemented. Cos atm any time I ever hover, I just get down to street level to make it somewhat interesting, and I'd simply much rather bots shoot back when hovering.

1 hour ago, Zeee said:

I remember when @=VG= Melon Muncher made it so bots didn't leave emplacements when players were not nearby so aa was always active and smacked cas more often not sure if its a thing still.

Sadly no, BRING THAT BACK TOO please, actually made flying more fun.

[R-CON LangMaster]

2 minutes ago, X0R said:

As am I, but harriers are op in coop period if you half know what you're doing cos the only thing to worry about is AA & pco gunners.

 

So I say @=VG= Melon Muncher gets out of his cave & implements the config that makes all bot inf & vehicles shoot at the harrier, cos it was fun for the very brief period it was implemented. Cos atm any time I ever hover, I just get down to street level to make it somewhat interesting, and I'd simply much rather bots shoot back when hovering.

Sadly no, BRING THAT BACK TOO please, actually made flying more fun.

not sure about the bots shooting at jets, i think that is a python thing and harrier would have to be tagged as a helicopter or something.

[=VG= XOR]

Nah, it's a config in weapon/vehicle ai templates, nothing to do with python.

[R-CON LangMaster]

Do it then :), melon has lot of else work to do now.

[=VG= Zeee]

11 minutes ago, X0R said:

actually made flying more fun

Agreed

[=VG= XOR]

51 minutes ago, LangMaster said:

Do it then :), melon has lot of else work to do now.

Unfortunately he's one of the few people that can push that kind of a config change through to main branch, too much of a hassle for anyone else to do so. 

 

If you want to give it a shot, simply open objects_weapon_server.zip\weapons\handheld\weapon_ranges for instance & open *ai file,i.e your weapon ai template, then simply change 'weaponTemplate.setStrength Airplane 0.0' to a different value and bots will use that weapon against aircraft, based on weights you provide.

[R-CON LangMaster]

You can do it by your self and send it to him or something, same thing with the ticket change for adak, i talked to melon and it was done by couple of minutes.

Everything i know i cant do by myself i usually do by my self and in couple next days i just hope one day it will see the light of PR, it worked with the adak and hell do i know how the fuck did i did it.

[=VG= Skiddles]

I am not a fan of hovering harriers, especially close to the ground.  The biggest reason is the noise, can't hear a bloody thing. We tell trans not to hover for the very same reason. Secondly, it looks like kill farming to me. Shooting infantry, light armor is IMO not the intend task/use for harriers. I believe all CAS should focus on targets infantry has a difficult time dealing with. Tanks, emplacements and the like. 

[=VG= Zeee]

8 minutes ago, Skiddles said:

I believe all CAS should focus on targets infantry has a difficult time dealing with.

I've seen full squads have a "difficult time" dealing with a single infantry unit so this is kinda funny to me

[=VG= Kavelenko]

The hover thing doesn't bother me per se but its only happening because there's little opposition on a map like Pavlovsk Bay Std, try doing that on Operation Soul  Rebel and you'll get shot down by a MiG.

[R-CON LangMaster]

43 minutes ago, =VG= Kavelenko said:

The hover thing doesn't bother me per se but its only happening because there's little opposition on a map like Pavlovsk Bay Std, try doing that on Operation Soul  Rebel and you'll get shot down by a MiG.

Even that does not work, i remember soul and there are 3 hovering harriers and the migs are flying like a bugs around them shooting just infrantry on the ground.

[=VG= Batmeme]

given to the right people  it will deadly i have no problem 

[=VG= GRNANDGLD]

18 hours ago, =VG= STARK said:

I think its ok at range . We don`t want to end up like this .

 

Tactically speaking, you would lose your wings for hovering in a CZ...its a sitting duck.  This guy got taken out by a tourist!!!

Its designed to support infantry advancing on the beach..

Its not the designed intent...but neither is an RPG or Shilka shooting at infantry...IT WORKS THO

[=VG= keed]

Thanks for your replies! Personally I don't really like the practice because there is little to no opposition to a hovering harrier, unlike there would for a CAS heli in the same place. 

Bots don't shoot their small arms at jets and neither do BMPs or Tanks with bigger guns.

Like skiddles said, those things are loud and disorienting which doesn't really help the Inf either.

As far as I am aware melon did try to implement bots shooting their AT at Harriers but that doesn't seem to be active anymore or never made the cut.

Since the vote is 50/50 split I assume there is no call for action to be made here.

[=VG= Connor]

no no sir, i did not vote yet!

Honestly though, I don't really see the issue, even when we have a great CAS squad, we still sometimes struggle on Pavlovsk. Sometimes we straight up wipe them in no time, it just depends on the infactry we have on the ground. And like in Soul, if you hover there, either you will be rammed or shot down by a mig, unless you manage to kill them in time, which a lot of people find hard whilst hovering anyway. The sound part I can understand though, they are pretty loud, however I have no issue myself, I still hear others fine and the game.

I do feel like melons fix did work in game for a while though, pretty sure we got shot at, but not long after everything seemed to have been reverted?

[System]

On 5/31/2021 at 4:56 AM, LangMaster said:

Even that does not work, i remember soul and there are 3 hovering harriers and the migs are flying like a bugs around them shooting just infrantry on the ground.

I wouldn't agree, and this is not a cherry picked scenario, enemy CAS does do their job quite well.
On Pavlovsk it's easy mode once you take out the quads. The rest of the game involves hiding from the enemy tank, until it drowns itself, every time. Tanks with a top gunner that actually go on land would make it more difficult for hovering. Having the entire enemy team fire at you would actually make more sense.
IMO the changes melon implemented server side a few patches ago to fix the maps should've been released game side. Also the spawning is not what it used to be, all maps feel like a breeze these days, as if bots are a) not spawning on intended flags, and b) spawning less frequently.
The thing that I miss the most is the neutral time, previously melon made it so that when you reach 0% cap the flag would stay in enemy control for about 15 seconds, long enough for them to spawn and push back the cap, now it when it reaches 0 it's immediately neutral (like it was before the change).

Also the harrier in hover mode is just a fun mini-game inside the game itself, learning to fly it and utilizing it to maximum effect is an extremely fun and challenging task (at least it was for me, and round where are I don't die in it are extremely rare).

P.S. Friendlies shoot more at me than the enemy

[R-CON LangMaster]

Still i am playing a realistic game mode, i am not up for this shit.

[R-CON LangMaster]

1 hour ago, System said:

I wouldn't agree, and this is not a cherry picked scenario, enemy CAS does do their job quite well.
On Pavlovsk it's easy mode once you take out the quads. The rest of the game involves hiding from the enemy tank, until it drowns itself, every time. Tanks with a top gunner that actually go on land would make it more difficult for hovering. Having the entire enemy team fire at you would actually make more sense.
IMO the changes melon implemented server side a few patches ago to fix the maps should've been released game side. Also the spawning is not what it used to be, all maps feel like a breeze these days, as if bots are a) not spawning on intended flags, and b) spawning less frequently.
The thing that I miss the most is the neutral time, previously melon made it so that when you reach 0% cap the flag would stay in enemy control for about 15 seconds, long enough for them to spawn and push back the cap, now it when it reaches 0 it's immediately neutral (like it was before the change).

Also the harrier in hover mode is just a fun mini-game inside the game itself, learning to fly it and utilizing it to maximum effect is an extremely fun and challenging task (at least it was for me, and round where are I don't die in it are extremely rare).

P.S. Friendlies shoot more at me than the enemy

Still i am playing realistic game mode, and i am not really up for this.

[System]

39 minutes ago, LangMaster said:

Still i am playing realistic game mode, and i am not really up for this.

What are you not up for?
The same realistic game mode where choppers hover 1 meter above ground moving between building on Muttrah, where bots always move in the same fashion and have 0 strategical/tactical capability? Or maybe that a Sherman tank does a horizontal 180 because it touched a fence at minimum speed? (the same feature you advocated to keep because it should be a learning curve for players and it's not fair that a !flip vehicle command should exist?)
This game is anything but real (despite the name), and removing a feature from it because it is "seems unreal" is just plain absurd.