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=VG= BinkleDinkle

PR COOP thread 1.6

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Geez - no wonder it had issues - all that mess in the cockpit, all that clutter... probably knocked a switch on the cyclic

:tatice_03:

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There's a bunch of "improved" layers that are just completely unbalanced now. First it was Bamyan Standard as pretty big outlier, but it seems that they changed Kozelsk Alternative for the worse as well. The enemy has like 4 APC's and 4 tanks that seem to just respawn instantly, resulting in a literally nonstop stream of enemy armor (while our armor is severely lacking and has a delayed spawn on it). Really big shame to see such beautiful maps get turned into unfun chores, and makes me wish that whoever in charge of balancing these maps would step back and re-evaluate the asset lists.

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Kozelsk Alt is another 'double-ified' map now. They've got 4x T-90s and BMP-2s that our single T-62 and two BMP-1s is unable to handle and just results in you being raped, as once you take down one T-90 with like 4 HAT shots another one rolls up to take it's place. Give them one T-90 and One BMP-2 and it'll be fine.

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Beirut Standard has an enemy spawn point near Apartments that never gets turned off even after neutralizing and capping the flag: https://imgur.com/a/5nbhegf

Also I definitely agree with what Carkidd said, Bamyan Std and Kozelsk Alt are just going to be "those" maps that hardly ever get played because they're just an unfun slog. You could cut the enemy armor in half and it would still be a little too much, but at least it wouldn't be as overdone.

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I don't have anything against maps being double-ified. His intention is to make PR coop a challenge again. But the problem really is the endless stream of tanks and bmps at you in Bamyan. Means you have to have 2 HAT kits in your squad to at least do some damage. While this is ok for veteran players, most noob squads don't even carry AT with them usually.

Here we find one of the challenges of coop mode: making maps hard enough so the veteran players don't bore themselves to death, while still being easy enough for new players not to get frustrated instantly.

 

IMO they should add 1 tank and not more on Bamyan, or remove the instant repsawn of enemy vehicles, as this is far more frustrating for you, and makes the map a giant sisyphus work.

 

In general I share double13's approach of making coop interesting and challenging again, as it heavily encourages team work. Most of the formerly boring maps (Wanda Shan for example) are now interesting again.

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But the double'fied changes are the wrong way.

Respawn times for static emplacement's (kashan) are to short and there are spawnpoints in the village that are related to south bunker. You have to leave at least 2 or 3 people behind only to defend the village. Splitting manpower. On a full server no problem but how it looks when you play only with 16 people on it?

Only assetwhores benefit from those changes.

Placing spawnpoints, that are related or not related to other flags, inside the cap-radius from any flag is not the SOLUTION ! It results in camping spawnpoints - Immersion breaker number one. You see how it ends = Shijia Valley and wounded bots.

You have many other ways to make it harder without putting a shitload of assets in for the bots.

 

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2 minutes ago, =VG= Fastjack said:

But the double'fied changes are the wrong way.

Respawn times for static emplacement's (kashan) are to short

 

Which layer? the ones I am looking at are all mostly 5min and 10 min.

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5 minutes ago, Rabbit said:

Which layer? the ones I am looking at are all mostly 5min and 10 min.

32 layer
 

Quote

rem [ObjectSpawnerTemplate: cpname_kashan_desert_coop32_northvillage_ats]
ObjectTemplate.create ObjectSpawner cpname_kashan_desert_coop32_northvillage_ats
ObjectTemplate.activeSafe ObjectSpawner cpname_kashan_desert_coop32_northvillage_ats
ObjectTemplate.modifiedByUser "Double_13"
ObjectTemplate.isNotSaveable 1
ObjectTemplate.hasMobilePhysics 0
ObjectTemplate.setObjectTemplate 1 mec_ats_milan_ndl
ObjectTemplate.team 1
ObjectTemplate.teamOnVehicle 1

Missing spawntimers
 

Quote

 

rem [ObjectSpawnerTemplate: cpname_kashan_desert_coop32_northvillage_ats_0]
ObjectTemplate.create ObjectSpawner cpname_kashan_desert_coop32_northvillage_ats_0
ObjectTemplate.activeSafe ObjectSpawner cpname_kashan_desert_coop32_northvillage_ats_0
ObjectTemplate.modifiedByUser "Double_13"
ObjectTemplate.isNotSaveable 1
ObjectTemplate.hasMobilePhysics 0
ObjectTemplate.setObjectTemplate 1 mec_ats_milan_ndl
ObjectTemplate.team 1
ObjectTemplate.teamOnVehicle 1

 

This too

So they sapwn something between 30-60 seconds.

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Or the creator of the gpo have to check his work  because it's not only in one map.

When i place objectspawners, like ammocaches (i did with 500), i check everything again via Notepad if there any anomaly or inconsistency. 

Precision, bro. That's all About.

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Ah... No Wonder i see bots moving out from the South Bunker Objective despite it being neutral  while being in APC Squad.

 

For the Bamyan Layer 32, The so called checkpoint flag (forget the actual flag name objective), the tow emplacement spawns every 1 min & the BTR that spawn in front of the tow also has a super fast spawn time (maybe less than 2mins or 3mins). Making a waste of ammo using of AT / ATGM rounds for the bradleys as need to handled both the tow & btr fast spawn while needing to deal with the massive armours movement to that flag. Unless u guys are kind enough to add more atgm rounds or reduce the reloading time of the atgm  for the bradleys :lol:.

 

hmmm... Not sure if i read the it properly, is that flag called checkpoint or vcp? Cuz base on the PR files, under VCP there a spawn of 300 for AT. But feels like kinda fast. Not sure bout the spawn timing for the BTR on that flag tho.

Quote

rem [ObjectSpawnerTemplate: cpname_bamyan_coop32_vcp2_at]
ObjectTemplate.create ObjectSpawner cpname_bamyan_coop32_vcp2_at
ObjectTemplate.activeSafe ObjectSpawner cpname_bamyan_coop32_vcp2_at
ObjectTemplate.modifiedByUser "Double_13"
ObjectTemplate.isNotSaveable 1
ObjectTemplate.hasMobilePhysics 0
ObjectTemplate.setObjectTemplate 1 zis3
ObjectTemplate.minSpawnDelay 300
ObjectTemplate.maxSpawnDelay 300
ObjectTemplate.team 1
ObjectTemplate.teamOnVehicle 1

 

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Now here's an interesting one on Dovre Winter.

When you spawn with a medic kit, everything works fine, you get the regular Coop medic kit.

When you grab a medic kit off a crate, you get the Deployment kit. This means everything is shuffled around, and you actually have to hold left-click to heal people (and you can't heal yourself).

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6 hours ago, Cruizer said:

Ah... No Wonder i see bots moving out from the South Bunker Objective despite it being neutral  while being in APC Squad.

 

For the Bamyan Layer 32, The so called checkpoint flag (forget the actual flag name objective), the tow emplacement spawns every 1 min & the BTR that spawn in front of the tow also has a super fast spawn time (maybe less than 2mins or 3mins). Making a waste of ammo using of AT / ATGM rounds for the bradleys as need to handled both the tow & btr fast spawn while needing to deal with the massive armours movement to that flag. Unless u guys are kind enough to add more atgm rounds or reduce the reloading time of the atgm  for the bradleys :lol:.

 

hmmm... Not sure if i read the it properly, is that flag called checkpoint or vcp? Cuz base on the PR files, under VCP there a spawn of 300 for AT. But feels like kinda fast. Not sure bout the spawn timing for the BTR on that flag tho.

 

TBH I think 300 (5 min) spawn is fine for crap like the ZIS 3

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3 hours ago, Rabbit said:

TBH I think 300 (5 min) spawn is fine for crap like the ZIS 3

Just curious, the btr for that layer is under what name? Cuz I couldn't find the spawn delay time for the btr that spawn on that flag objective. From what I remember, everytime I killed a btr that spawn there, the next 1 spawn like less than 2 or 3 minutes. Sometimes instantly (probably when the current btr was manned & move out from spawn location without getting shot by us)

 

I always tell my guys (in apc squad) to ignore that btr & it's spawn & to priorities the armour blitzkrieg as well as that tow which spawn on that flag (including the tow on Apartments objective) 

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I wonder how many of maps including layers that doesn't have any spawn delay & etc. I only take a look on 1 layout, have not look at the others yet.

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I found on fallujah more than 50 spawnpoints that aren't in line with PR coop standards.

Investigating all bugged spawners from all coop maps/layers would end in a report with something around 500+ lines.

 

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@Johnny__Rico Don't get me wrong, I love the tough maps, but it can be a thin line between a tough map and a total rape of even an experienced 40 person server. A good example of what I would like to see more of is found on barracuda- Normally, to end the map, a squad simply flies to the bunker entracnce of the final point and runs right in without much of a fight. This update has added a quad gun to the roof of that bunker making such a strat suicide without dealing with it. This is a simple change, that's worked around in multiple ways (blow up the quad with cas, mortar it, land elsewhere and walk in, etc) that forces you to change your tactics and use new parts of the map (what we really want with coop!) without just giving the bots a ton of armor, and  is what should be focused on with improving coop gameplay.

Shahada does this as well with smart placement of tow and AA on roofs resulting in tanks and CAS never having free reign in the town, and it's large amounts of enemy armor are much more easily dealt with due to the city allowing you to flank.

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11 hours ago, Cruizer said:

Just curious, the btr for that layer is under what name? Cuz I couldn't find the spawn delay time for the btr that spawn on that flag objective. From what I remember, everytime I killed a btr that spawn there, the next 1 spawn like less than 2 or 3 minutes. Sometimes instantly (probably when the current btr was manned & move out from spawn location without getting shot by us)

 

I always tell my guys (in apc squad) to ignore that btr & it's spawn & to priorities the armour blitzkrieg as well as that tow which spawn on that flag (including the tow on Apartments objective) 

I honestly don't know what btr you guys are talking about. Did a search through the gpo and found nothing.

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11 hours ago, Cruizer said:

Just curious, the btr for that layer is under what name? Cuz I couldn't find the spawn delay time for the btr that spawn on that flag objective. From what I remember, everytime I killed a btr that spawn there, the next 1 spawn like less than 2 or 3 minutes. Sometimes instantly (probably when the current btr was manned & move out from spawn location without getting shot by us)

 

I always tell my guys (in apc squad) to ignore that btr & it's spawn & to priorities the armour blitzkrieg as well as that tow which spawn on that flag (including the tow on Apartments objective) 

ObjectTemplate.maxNrOfObjectSpawned 4

That means, if one btr (i think he means the mtlb) spawned a left the radius from where it spawned (missing that line, Default value kicks in) another one will spawn till the 4 btr(mtlb) spawned. 

Edit: why the commander btr acv can spawn 4 times? 

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7 minutes ago, =VG= Fastjack said:

ObjectTemplate.maxNrOfObjectSpawned 4

That means, if one btr (i think he means the mtlb) spawned a left the radius from where it spawned (missing that line, Default value kicks in) another one will spawn till the 4 btr(mtlb) spawned. 

Edit: why the commander btr acv can spawn 4 times? 

It was probably a control C control V and object spawner change.

 

rem [ObjectSpawnerTemplate: cpname_bamyan_coop64_checkpoint_tank]
ObjectTemplate.create ObjectSpawner cpname_bamyan_coop64_checkpoint_tank
ObjectTemplate.activeSafe ObjectSpawner cpname_bamyan_coop64_checkpoint_tank
ObjectTemplate.modifiedByUser "Double_13"
ObjectTemplate.isNotSaveable 1
ObjectTemplate.hasMobilePhysics 0
ObjectTemplate.setObjectTemplate 1 mec_apc_btr80a_bf2
ObjectTemplate.team 1
ObjectTemplate.teamOnVehicle 1

 

Found,it, no spawn time.

 

IIRC mineral had a script to check for spawntimes and set them to keep things standardized. You might want to ask him about that.

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@Rabbit

I have a Question. You was a mapper you also created AAS4 and redfor routes and blufor routes?

How the random flags system works? The python chosse a specifiec sublayer in the gpo?

 

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