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=VG= Melon Muncher

PR coop maps that you hate

Poll  

33 members have voted

  1. 1. Pick the maps you want to see the coop redone

    • Al Basrah
      7
    • Bamyan
      4
    • Beirut
      14
    • Dovre (summer)
      4
    • Dovre (Winter)
      3
    • Dragon Fly
      6
    • Fools Road
      5
    • Hades Peak
      14
    • Kokan
      4
    • Kozelsk
      5
    • Nuijamaa
      7
    • Op Marlin
      8
    • Pavlovsk
      7
    • Qwai River
      9
    • Ramiel
      3
    • Route E-106
      5
    • Shijia Valley
      8
    • Silent Eagle
      6
    • Vadso
      18


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Poll time,

Choose the map that you enjoy but hate the coop

Example, you love Operation Marlin as a map but you hate playing coop because it's pretty boring for most of the game. Not, You hate tad sae because it's dark. There's too many trees on Ia Drang etc.

I've made the poll multiple choice, but try and limit it to a few choices to make it obvious which map is shit.

If you aren't even sure what maps are what gallery is here https://www.realitymod.com/mapgallery/#!/

Maps that aren't included are maps that either
A ) I can't do anything more than what is already there. (Tad Sae, Burning Sands, Muttrah etc)
B ) I don't have the motivation to fix (Vietnam, Saarema etc)

The poll is not for things like swap APC for a tank, this is more for a complete scrapping and start over. If you have suggestions like an asset swap, post it in this thread cause I'll consider everything, but the poll is not for that.

Assume they are all the STD Layers

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Vadso isn't worth saving, even if you delete all of the non terrain lightmapped shrubs to deal with that whole issue you are still left with pretty much the same POI. I guess you could delete the shrubs then and just say fuck it and throw mil on it for a layer v 80s brit falklands.

I think marlin could be a bit more fun with a shahadah like layer.

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I agree with Vadso, it is propably unsalvageable.

Qwai River always feels more like a chore than a nice map. Long drive/even longer walk at the start, all the cool fighting is in the city, the rest is shit.

 

Beirut is a special one. Current outlay (1.5.9.x) is really shit. Shit scopes, only posibility to influence something is as AR or Tank.

The old layout of this map was superb. Capture and cross the bridge, establish a bridgehead etc. was always so much fun. I have talke with multiple people about it and they all loved that old layout.

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@Johnny__Rico

Remaking Beruit on the Russian Naval side will alleviate the scope issues, and also get us a chance to check out the new assets made for that faction that we don't ever see (the GAZ, new trucks, new landing ship and new helicopters!)

I hope you guys put some thought into it, and thanks for running this survey!

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And Qwai river has an entire half of the map unused. Having the flags split on both sides like the alt Marlin would lead to good teamplay as you would have the team split up. to get through quickly.

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So making a map with bots has a size limit to the amount of ground the AI can cover before the game crashes. the size varies map to map with things like whether it is a forest, urban or desert map. making bots move on water counts for nothing because there's nothing for them to avoid.

As a general rule of thumb, a 1km can have bots on 100% of it, 2km is 40-60% and a 4km is 15-20%. This is why maps have a lot of areas that you don't play coop on especially 4km maps like shijia, Vadso or saaremaa always focus on the same areas.

 

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Regarding Qwai River:

Is it possible to just turn the map around?

We start in the south and have to work our way to the north. That means we capture points along the western part of the map (including the city ofc), and the final assault would be on what currently is the US main base. That thing never felt like a main base but more like a twisted fort, and thereby could be potentially fun to assault.

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Fools road, maybe move the GB main to where militia is; change mil to Russia and remesh as much as you can going down the western road? First flag would be the hill in C7/C8, then train depot and RU main will have to be the coal mine.

SP vehicles and such could spawn somewhere s/se/sw of the tunnel/bunker complex to avoid meshing that area too.

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6 hours ago, =VG= Melon Muncher said:

So making a map with bots has a size limit to the amount of ground the AI can cover before the game crashes. the size varies map to map with things like whether it is a forest, urban or desert map. making bots move on water counts for nothing because there's nothing for them to avoid.

As a general rule of thumb, a 1km can have bots on 100% of it, 2km is 40-60% and a 4km is 15-20%. This is why maps have a lot of areas that you don't play coop on especially 4km maps like shijia, Vadso or saaremaa always focus on the same areas.

 

You can get some extra percentages for  2k and 4k Maps when you prepare the staticobjects.con for the navmesh process in a special manner. 2k Maps can have also nearly 90% playarea but it depends mostly of how many tree's (vegetation) you have on the map.

For excample, the combatarea edges get tesselated and creates an amount of triangles (poly's) where they  arent needed.

Ecxample: I placed walls as combatarea and placed the original combatarea a Little bit outside of the walls. All edges was straight navmeshed without small poly's at the edges.

Here a Picture of one edge of the CombatArea (CA) without walls.5ed50b1c3e948_normalCAedges.thumb.png.f5c94ecb7b5f82d059d64e8099539864.png

Here one CA Edge where i used walls.

5ed50b55269d3_CA_starightedges.thumb.png.63853f7c0b1b9101d52c720fb1e0ed12.png

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Not sure if some of you would like to hear this but vadso is bullshit on coop since you switched sides its buggy aa is pretty much useless when there is less then 2 inf squads and 2 tanks you will lose cuz its impossible to push and yeah that’s everything i had to say

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Out of all the maps listed in the voting options, Hades Peak & Fools Road & Vadso City is the least played map on VG COOP. I can go on forever on why these maps are not very popular among regular players, but I believe all 3 maps have these characteristics in common:

- Map visibility is very low, NOT because of the terrain, but because of the light setting.

- Transportation is heavily relied on one asset type (i.e. Helicopters in Vadso, Jeeps in Hades peak & Fools road).

- Very few heavy assets and they die rather easily (due to Anti air/tank assets as well as dark/forest setting).

 

From my point of view, navmesh rework isn't going to make these maps popular again, but rather waste Melon and other COOP devs time and effort. I believe the best option for these maps, for the time being until something else comes along (aka night vision for infantry), is asset rework. I don't know if these make the maps play better because I haven't actually played and can't account for who is actually manning the asset, but at least it will make these maps playable, especially during low population time periods:

Hades Peak

- Remove AH-64 chopper, and add few armors with thermal vision (2x M1 Abrams or 2-3x M2 Bradley)

- Add either 2x MH-6 Littlebirds or 1x Chinook for ease of transportation (but can be easily shot down by AAs)

Fools Road:

- Add 1x MH-6 Littlebird transport

- Add 1x Challenger 2 tank WITHOUT thermal vision (enemies have very little anti-tank assets available)

Vadso City:

- 2-3x boats spawn at Airfield instead of the carrier (they rarely get used when spawning at carrier)

- Fewer transport choppers, and maybe add 1x Littlebird with rocket pods

- More jeeps, with 50 cal on top as a light anti-armor asset.

 

And..... one more suggestion:

Would it be possible if we change factions in each map layout? It is good to see different sections of maps being used based on which layout we're playing, but we're still playing as the same faction, fighting against the same enemies with similar assets. I know I'm not the only person who enjoyed playing as an OPFOR when it was available back then, having at least one layout on these "least popular" maps with human side playing as Russians/Insurgents/MEC fighting against common BLUFOR factions (aka Americans/British) would certainly bring more interest.

 

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@Melon:

Watch out by fools road. There is a place where bots try to walk up a hill but the hill is to steep and many bots will stuck there. I killed there once 26 bots with only ONE grenade.

 

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23 hours ago, =VG= Melon Muncher said:

Here's some updates on things I've been working on. Beirut is coming plus some other things

Looks Awesome Melon!

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On 12.6.2020 at 1:54 PM, Rabbit said:

Wow thats a way bigger mesh for fools road than I expected. 

I think if you spend at least 24 work hours on the map you could expand the navmesh to the maximum by morphing Terrain (preventing tris clusterfuck), turning overgrowth into staticobjects to remove  some of them(reduce navmeshtime), adding here and there some cool stickies, cutting of the combatzone with walls and Melons new method and taadaaa. Fools road and navmesh in each GRID.

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15 hours ago, =VG= Fastjack said:

@Melon:

Watch out by fools road. There is a place where bots try to walk up a hill but the hill is to steep and many bots will stuck there. I killed there once 26 bots with only ONE grenade.

 

It's been a while since I played Fools Road but I believe it's somewhere around here:

1.png.78de69d657ea7928c797e5daf31f5b79.png

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Excellent work Melon! Great to see the Beirut Russian version back that will be hugely popular, I never understood why that was reversed. Really looking forward to these maps in the up coming updates well done!

A map that I really hate is the Falklands Infantry Coop map, what a pain that thing is no wonder its not played very often. Not enough vehicles, why don't we have a STD, ALT, & LRG layer for this legendary Battle?

Surely we could have Carriers with CAS Harriers, Air to Air dogfighting between Harriers and Mirages on the large layer, how difficult would that be to do?

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37 minutes ago, =VG= Kavelenko said:

Excellent work Melon! Great to see the Beirut Russian version back that will be hugely popular, I never understood why that was reversed.

it's still us playing the IDF

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