Following squad leader orders

[WarGhost]

I'm just curious about something happend 2 or 3 days ago, we were playing kashan desert as tank squad and one of the squad members was refusing to fall back with his tank when ordered by squad leader and he said there is no rules against refusing such an order.

The flag caps were in correct order, it's just that the squad leader want to regroup before pushing with the tanks and the guy was already in the midle way to the flag.

Was the guys right about this?

This does not distube me since i always follow orders but like i said i'm just curious about it.

 

[=VG= .Blizzard.]

There is really no rule against lone wolfs, only about camping and flag skipping and this is clearly not the case, so he was ok i guess. 

This is more of the squadleaders fault as it is his job to manage his own squad. He can always use the kick button, that s why it is made  for. 

[=VG= 0100011000101]

then I have a question too: if a member of the tanksqds disobey, I can kick him from the sqd? because then he is no longer in tanksqd and must give back the tank ...

[=VG= m823us]

10 hours ago, 0100011000101 said:

then I have a question too: if a member of the tanksqds disobey, I can kick him from the sqd? because then he is no longer in tanksqd and must give back the tank ...

 

11 hours ago, WarGhost said:

I'm just curious about something happend 2 or 3 days ago, we were playing kashan desert as tank squad and one of the squad members was refusing to fall back with his tank when ordered by squad leader and he said there is no rules against refusing such an order.

The flag caps were in correct order, it's just that the squad leader want to regroup before pushing with the tanks and the guy was already in the midle way to the flag.

Was the guys right about this?

This does not distube me since i always follow orders but like i said i'm just curious about it.

 

 You both bring up some great points.  A squad leader has the ability to manage his squad as they see fit.  This is one of their jobs, besides making sure that communication is being done  and coordinated and that everyone is on the same page.  This means that if someone does not follow directions, they can be kicked because they were not following the orders.  If they are kicked, that forces them to lose the asset since at that point they would be stealing it.  A squad can only be effective if everyone is working together.  

Hope this helps!

[=VG= 0100011000101]

yes, thanks ... helped a lot;)

[ZZANG1847]

I happened to be in THAT squad in THAT game on THAT day.

The person in question argued with me and squad leader that he wasn't violating the rules because 1) Airport flag is not considered as enemy's main base, and 2) There is no rule in the server that states that spawn camping is prohibited. Well..... In case you've been living under a rock, the last flag enemy can spawn (aka MEC Airbase) IS considered as a Main Base, and spawn camping is a Kickable/Bannable offense if they do not comply with Admin's warning. As a result, he was given a warning twice before kicked by myself and later he came back and called me "Badmin" for enforcing the rules. Well let's just say that I don't care how he feels about what happened that day because there's nothing he can do about it .

With that out of the way, disobeying squad leader is not a PR COOP Rule Violation, but as a squad leader you're more than entitled to kick that person off from your squad. YOU lead the squad and YOU are the person in charge, therefore you have a right to kick someone off from your squad for whatever reason you see fit. It might be a good idea to have a legitimate reason why you don't want that person in your squad, like "He's not following my orders" or "He's grabbing kits that i told him not to" or "He sucks at gunning/flying/driving," and etc. You may be fine without having a proper reason, but then it becomes a headache that I or anyone would rather not deal with.

If the person who was kicked from the squad was driving/flying/manning a claimable asset squad and refuse to leave the asset, then report to the admins that he was 1) Kicked from the squad, and 2) The person is refusing to leave the asset. If they are given a warning by an admin and still refuse to leave the asset, then they'll be kicked repeatedly until they're banned from the server. If we go down that route, they can come here and complain about it all the time but only thing they can do is either make your own server with your own rules or get a SSD so they can join faster than everybody.

By the way, if they INTENTIONALLY crash/waste whatever asset they're manning, let us know and that person will be banned from the server until further notice. I don't care how long it takes for that particular asset to respawn. You don't get to do $H!T like that and walk away without any consequences, period.

[David]

i hate when my squadmates doing their own business and going everywhere just like stray cats on the battlefield
i always follow my sql everytime 

 

[=VG= Acro1]

As per the rules,  you don't "need" a reason at all to remove someone from the squad. We trust the good sense of our community in this. When someone complains about being kicked, the squad leader can be asked for a reason since we do not encourage unfair treatment of honest, good-hearted players. Kicking all Arabs or someone with an ugly voice is heavily frowned upon. The very basic question every squad leader should ask is 'is this person causing a nuisance or problem within the squad?'.  

 

For reference, these are some commonly occuring reasons for removing a player from the squad:

The player is...

...breaking any server rule.

...not following orders. This includes taking the wrong kit, hogging vehicle seats and not following any given order to the letter. Your squad, your rules.

...constantly lagging behind the squad.

...very bad at the game, possibly due to being new.

...unable to communicate due to language barrier

...constantly talking loudly or too much, or always second-guessing your orders.

...giving orders him/herself despite not being squad leader.

...dying or wasting vehicles due to very high ping.

 

These are just examples that occur. Never be afraid to remove an unwanted player from your squad.

Worst case, he reports you and the friendly neighbourhood admins will take over from that point on ;).

[WarGhost]

Thank you for replies guys.

[=VG= STRONTIUM-DOG (Inactive Duty)]

IT's, sir yes sir ! or there shot for insubordination is that allowed by the way ???? : )  it's just i have to lock the SQ when Mr gonzo rejoins after being kicked and it takes time and some GUI in the heat of battle, then my SQ is locked denying access to new players, unless i'm messaged.  

Mostly due to some leaderships skills and patience, all my cats are in a line but there is always one , rouge SQ killer maybe that's unavoidable ? i would still like to know if executing them is allowed. ? 

Q1 Do SQ leaders have the right to shoot their own troops for insubordination.

Q2 Will the SQ face a lengthy ban inquiry after the incident. 

 

 

[=VG= 0100011000101]

1 hour ago, STRONTIUM_DOG said:

Do SQ leaders have the right to shoot their own troops for insubordination.

only in a boxing match and only when an admin is the referee.

1 hour ago, STRONTIUM_DOG said:

Will the SQ face a lengthy ban inquiry after the incident. 

if you hit the referee than in any case ... ;p

[=VG= STRONTIUM-DOG (Inactive Duty)]

hahah noted whats our KO score now ? hahah 

[=VG= Kavelenko]

On 1/29/2019 at 12:41 PM, =VG= Acro1 said:

These are just examples that occur. Never be afraid to remove an unwanted player from your squad.

I agree with all these comments in general because the assumption here is that the squad leader of a heavy asset squad is a responsible player and playing the game in the right "spirit". Sure, kick players who are deliberately not doing what they're told or wasting assets etc but also allow new players to join your squads and learn how to play the game (exception perhaps noob pilots). They are never going to learn without being in an environment where they can see how to behave and work together.

So yep I agree that the squad leader has the right to decide who stays in the squad but what about the scenario where the squad leader is incompetent or kicking the entire squad because the players don't quite meet their expectations? That to me, is the scenario where the admins need to determine the situation and perhaps resign that particular SL for disrupting the "TEAM". That's the 'gray' area where we leave it to the discretion of the admins who are on to keep an eye on anyone adversely disrupting game play.

[=VG= SemlerPDX]

Everybody already made such great points in the replies - it's great we have so many people adopting the same spirit of COOP that we've promoted here at VG for the past 10 years!!!!!

Nothing more needs to be said - but I'll toss in some opinions and fire off some STANAG ammo laying around my brains on this subject:
People need to use their best judgement when kicking someone from a squad in the manner described in the top post, and try to always tell them why so maybe something can improve or change with that person in future.

The SL should really try to evaluate if the infraction is worth losing a tank (ETA for replacement crew could be longer than a couple minutes), one thing that's never changed in PR is that sometimes you're herding cats as an SL.  Just talking to someone can be far more effective than a simple kick - the SL stating what they need from the group, that they will be resigned if they don't want to follow with the group, and then pulling the trigger on the 'kick from squad'
 - not gonna improve much if the person doesn't know why they were kicked.  That's all I gots to say on that.

...except I wanna say this, too....
If I were the SL in the scenario at the top, I would most likely just ignore the disobedience if we were all going to that point, accepting that my desired formation push would be one tank short, the same as if I kicked the obstinate tank that was already halfway to where I want my tank squad to be anyway -- but I would certainly make these things known to that tanker, and after action would kick them (telling them why) and would not include them in future tank squads, noting the player name as someone I cannot count on for teamwork action.

But as far as rules go, the damn Tank SL could kick that dude just for telling stupid jokes and not shutting up--- or for being absolutely horrible and not ready for primetime as a tank pilot or shooty-man.

We only police excessive and unwarranted or barely-warranted kicks from squad to the point it becomes a pattern of behavior that is disruptive to the game, and that goes for every server we run here from PR to Arma to BMS.

[=VG= STRONTIUM-DOG (Inactive Duty)]

3 hours ago, =VG= SemlerPDX said:

herding cats as an SL.  Just talking to someone can be far more effective than a simple kick - the SL stating what they need from the group,

Yep that's the job of the SL so i have to agree that it's the SLs job to control the minds of the SQ, tricks are better than kicks.  logic and reason seem to be more effective in the long run, than a kick up the ass.

And honour amongst chaos keeps stains of your pants : )  

I will try not to execute my own men  as  it seems like its a gray complex undetermined issue. 

 

   

Are You Able To Embrace Chaos? | Psychology Today

 

 

[=VG= STRONTIUM-DOG (Inactive Duty)]

3 hours ago, =VG= SemlerPDX said:

Nothing more needs to be said - but I'll toss in some opinions and fire off some STANAG ammo laying around my brains on this subject:

Yer me to ?