Issue with bots using AA

[=VG= Melon Muncher]

Added a poll to the OP

[whtz]

No, cas should use skill.

Edit: let them spawn less -  ok. Cas skills are limited.

[=VG= Zeee]

Should just go back to the days where cas had 300+ kills on each map unimpeded 

 

[Boriis]

On 8/9/2022 at 6:03 PM, =VG= The_Polish_Guy said:

I assume everyone interested is aware of the changes made to the bots a while ago. So I won't go into details describing it. Following the changes different people had different opinions. Mostly positive of course. Yet from the beginning there has been one issue, the increased number of AA on every map due to bots using MANPADS.

Most CAS/TRANS players flew it because it was fun and quite often challenging. Because despite what most people who don't know what CAS is like say, it actually requires some level of piloting/gunning skills, communication skills and map knowledge and if a player masters all of that I don't see what's wrong with him getting a lot of kills/points. In the end we always say that kills don't matter in a team oriented game like PR. And with bots unloading full mags into you in seconds it's even harder. So adding even more AA capabilities to the bots seems fine at the beginning but really makes flying a different experience. Specifically it is frustrating and annoying as there is usually no way for pilots to avoid mobile AA launchers. On maps with no terrain features like hills or valleys there is no way to avoid being locked by an enemy MANPADS.

It's partly because of PR being PR and some weird things AA missiles can do but mostly it's because of what the bots can do. Of course a bot with an AA launcher is basically invincible when standing in a forest. Bots don't need time to lock on they just look at a plane and it's locked. Of course they sometimes wait before firing to give the pilot some time to react but in a lot of cases they just shoot instantly, that gives the pilot no time to strike a target before being locked which makes even strikes on friendly lases very challenging. That of course is a situation when a good pilot would pre-flare to avoid being locked, the issue is though that it doesn't work against bots. They basically don't care if you are doing that, they only care about the flares that you drop after the lock is established. Then if the pilot avoids all three missiles (I think that's the number of AA kits per team) there's around a minute before the bots rearm and fire again. And then even if someone kills all the AA bots, they just respawn almost right away.

Then of course there are all the other AA assets that are usually easier to deal with but combined with the 3 AA kits pose a bigger danger to both CAS and TRANS. And the asset respawn times are still the same. So on maps that previously had no AA and a respawn time on an asset close to 15-20 minutes flying is basically a waiting simulator. That's why more and more people stop playing that role. But on a lot of maps CAS is necessary to play a map because there isn't enough ground assets that can deal with enemy assets and infantry. And because more experienced players avoid playing CAS as it's not fun anymore almost only new players use it and accomplish nothing because they don't have the skills necessary.  This makes some maps very hard and not fun to play for everyone.

I'm writing this very long post to hopefully have a discussion about what the issue is and how it can be fixed. I feel like it's very important as a lot of maps that we used to play with 20-25 people on, we now struggle to finish in the time limit. Especially now that there is a lot of new players on the server.

So please if you don't have anything important to say just don't say anything as I am already bored of people that rarely play the game telling me to git gud.

Flares

[TH0M]

Tho it's janky & bothers me at times, i'd rather it stays even if the problem persist. If the problem is fixed, even better, if not, so be it

[=VG= The_Polish_Guy]

23 hours ago, whtz said:

No, cas should use skill.

16 hours ago, Boriis said:

Flares

Please read the entire thread because I explained everything there and no, no flares.

18 hours ago, =VG= Zeee said:

Should just go back to the days where cas had 300+ kills on each map unimpeded 

 

Well it's basically the same now but it's tanks and apcs getting huge amount of kills sitting on hills. And they can't be damaged by small arms, the lats and hats don't have the range to hit them, enemy armor has no chance of destroying them unless it does some PR bot magic and there is no enemy cas to kill them because the bots almost don't use it now that they have off map airfields. So we end up with even less team-play as all the armor assets (and on many maps soloed crows hmmwvs) sit on hills instead of helping infantry cap flags.

Also I don't want CAS to get 300 kills on every map. Even before it happened rarely and on maps that are still very easy and CAS still gets the most kills on them. Also it is and has been helicopters getting a ton of kills not jets and now helicopters still have a way easier job than planes. Combine that with bugs like not counting bomb kills and every jet at the end of round has -300 points even if he bombs the entire enemy team.

Thank you for the poll. Let's see what people that didn't write anything want. Also I should point out that I think if there is a way to nerf the manpads either by lowering the amount of them or some other PR magic, we should try that instead of removing them.

[Boriis]

2 hours ago, =VG= The_Polish_Guy said:

Please read the entire thread because I explained everything there and no, no flares.

Well it's basically the same now but it's tanks and apcs getting huge amount of kills sitting on hills. And they can't be damaged by small arms, the lats and hats don't have the range to hit them, enemy armor has no chance of destroying them unless it does some PR bot magic and there is no enemy cas to kill them because the bots almost don't use it now that they have off map airfields. So we end up with even less team-play as all the armor assets (and on many maps soloed crows hmmwvs) sit on hills instead of helping infantry cap flags.

Also I don't want CAS to get 300 kills on every map. Even before it happened rarely and on maps that are still very easy and CAS still gets the most kills on them. Also it is and has been helicopters getting a ton of kills not jets and now helicopters still have a way easier job than planes. Combine that with bugs like not counting bomb kills and every jet at the end of round has -300 points even if he bombs the entire enemy team.

Thank you for the poll. Let's see what people that didn't write anything want. Also I should point out that I think if there is a way to nerf the manpads either by lowering the amount of them or some other PR magic, we should try that instead of removing them.

Im just saying if theres a rocket locking you then use your flares they are designed for that 

[=EINF= cubiksrube]

7 minutes ago, Boriis said:

Im just saying if theres a rocket locking you then use your flares they are designed for that 

oh nice thanks! 

[=VG= The_Polish_Guy]

41 minutes ago, Boriis said:

Im just saying if theres a rocket locking you then use your flares they are designed for that 

Oh my god how could I forget that! Thanks dude.

[=VG= 𝔗ℜ𝔒𝔍𝔄𝔑]

The bots just don't care about flares 

[Boriis]

On 8/28/2022 at 3:11 PM, =VG= The_Polish_Guy said:

Oh my god how could I forget that! Thanks dude.

No problem man always there for you 

[Deadvalley200]

It might seem counter intuitive to some, but flying at treetop level is a great way to avoid AA fire. Not sure how well it works against bots though.