=VG= Calv

SavageCDN =VG= LAN_WROTE ... Calv what should our next steps be? Do we need to work on a training-specific mission or expand on the one we started? Rifle ranges are cool and all but I think the 'meat' of it has to be actual practice in movement/comms/tactics, etc.. thoughts? Honestly was just planning on setting a date for next week, do a signup thread for that date. Then spend 15-20mins in the training mission just going over the stuff I mentioned in this thread. Then throw everyone into some missions, plenty of basic coop missions that are included with the game and available elsewhere that should be fine for just getting started, looks like we'd have enough for around 3 fireteams. May have to check the server to see what it has and maybe put some more on beforehand. Most likely that we'll get massacred in some of the missions but it's all learning experience. Just browsing for some decent looking coop mission packs.

Pvt. Charry LAN_WROTE ... sign me up, too! :D but i'm really confused with all that tiem shit... Assuming you're in Germany that's gmt +2 I believe, so would be starting at 9pm on Saturday nights.

AirborneAlways LAN_WROTE ... Don't know if I will do weekly as I do have to keep the better half happy. !wife Don't have to be there every week, would generally have a signup thread for each week. This is just to get an idea of who is interested.

Murderface LAN_WROTE ... 7am Sunday is perfect. just worried about these meets focused on Strategy/Teamwork/Tactics will clash with the meetings that are already currently being set up. unless we have enough people and are happy to have these as our ArmA meet days. The idea is they're the same thing. There seems to be interest in regular events but as of yet no real schedule for it. So this is the first step in getting a day and time sorted and a rough idea of how many people want to do it.

I agree with the ACE/ACRE thing and would definitely be pushing the session in that direction, but to begin with I think getting everyone on the same page with vanilla arma is the best way. Once everyone is working well as a team I would probably introduce ACRE and get the comms sorted, as the radio stuff can be explained pretty easily and are actually easier than using the ingame VON/TS style. Once that's done would then do an ACE session, spend time making sure everyone has sixupdater installed, get ACE setup correctly, then cover the basic new features: weapon resting, weight/stamina, medical system, explosives. Launching straight into ace/acre just adds too much additional things that can go wrong and is more likely to turn people off. Also want to be able to get into running missions as quick as possible so that people aren't stood around putting up with "training" too much. Murderface LAN_WROTE ... im down. best day for me would be Sunday (Saturday for Stateside) and whatever time can be organised i will most likely be able to attend on that day. Updated first post with time/day. Think that would be around 7am Sunday morning for you, that ok? Could maybe add another hour but would start being pretty late for any euros.

So it seems there is interest in having some more organised Arma gaming. First obvious step is going to be to get a list of who wants to play, and get a fixed day and time each week that everyone can attend. Due to timezones I expect either saturday or sunday to be the better options but we'll see what everyone says. Firstly though, I think it's important that everyone is on the same page as to what these sessions are going to be like. The core idea is to move away from the unorganised way that public, persistent missions like domination and insurgency are and have some effective, organised, tactical missions with everyone working together. While this isn't going to be some hardcore milsim gaming there needs to be a minimum standard set to allow things to run smoothly and enable us to actually complete missions. The following is a very condensed version of the basic information that I would intend to have everyone know and put into practice regardless of what task or role they are fulfilling in the mission. The purpose of this is to allow everyone to form an idea of what is going to be expected for these sessions. 1. Structure - Initially the focus is going to be purely on fireteams. Establishing the basic infantry knowledge and gaining a good level of teamwork is essential before people use specialised roles such as pilot, mg, sniper, etc. When numbers increase additional fireteams, squads etc will be added. Explanation of key structure terms: Platoon - 46 men. Consists of 4 man HQ team, and 3 Squads. Squad - 14 men. Consists of 3 fireteams plus Squad Leader and Medic. Fireteam - 4 men. Consists of Team leader, rifleman, automatic rifleman and assistant rifleman. Buddy team - 2 men. Consists of each half of the fireteam. Team leader + rifleman, and automatic rifleman + assistant rifleman. 2. Communication - Our comms will be split between teamspeak and ingame VON. It is easy for everyone to imagine that having 14 or more people all talking at once is going to be chaos. So a set of basic rules is needed to stop our ears from bleeding. * Use the correct channel - To begin with there is only really going to be 2 radio channels to be used. Teamspeak will be reserved for fireteam leaders and command to communicate with each other on. Ingame Group VON will be used to communicate with the other people in your fireteam. So this means that the vast majority of us will only use the Group channel and during a mission will only really speak with the other people in the fireteam. * ID yourself - Simple rule. Always identify yourself before saying anything on any radio channel. "Calv, contacts west", "Calv, wounded". It's a simple thing but makes all comms much more effective. * Accuracy - Easy enough, be accurate as possible with your messages. "Contact over there", "Guy to the right", "Someone near that tree" etc serve no purpose. When giving directions to something stick to cardinal directions. N,S,E,W,NW,NE,SE,SW, etc. If you can provide a bearing then follow up with that (The vanilla arma compass is a bit crappy for reading bearing so don't worry too much if you can't.). For contact reports provide numbers and distance, doesn't have to be exact numbers just as accurate as possible. * Brevity - Don't fill the radio channel with rambling or waffle. Keep your messages short and simple. The goal is to transmit your message in as few words as possible while retaining maximum clarity and accuracy. "Guys...some enemies to the west...looks like 4 or 5 of them, just infantry. Moving away from us, looks like they are about 200m away." contains mostly useful information, but fills the radio channel for a long period of time during which someone else may have something more urgent to report. "Contacts west, 5 infantry, 200m" gives the same information in a fraction of the time. * Clarity - Always be clear in what you are communicating. Getting rushed, garbled or inaccurate messages over the radio serves no purpose, it just wastes time by requiring people to ask for clarification. The best way to accomplish this is by using commonly known terms and having all the info required before speaking. For example if you spot an enemy patrol in the distance, don't panic and immediately call contacts. Gather the info you need for a clear report. "contacts, west, 4 infantry". You can then if necessary go into further detail regarding distance, direction of movement etc. Of course common sense must be used, if the patrol is 50m away and moving towards you, then call 'Contacts' just to alert everyone, then follow up with direction, number and distance as you can. 3. Movement - Basic knowledge for how you move when working as a team, mostly common sense but takes some practice. * Cover all sectors - this means that as a fireteam you want all 360 degrees around you to be watched at all times. Simplest way of accomplishing this is to check what direction the person you are following is looking and look the other way. Most often when patrolling in the open or in urban environments Column formation will be used. So if the lead person is looking forward (as they should be if leading) the next person looks left, the next right, and the last looks to the rear. Therefore as stated, if you see the person infront of you looking forward, then look left or right, if they're looking right, look left. If you're at the rear, look to the rear. Same applies when moving in buddy teams, always be covering a different direction to your buddy. Always ensure to take into account the area and where enemies are expected to be, if you're moving towards an enemy camp and have friendly fireteams on the left and right of you then of course focus on aiming towards the enemy camp. * Don't bunch up - Try to always maintain at least 3-4m distance between the person in front of you. Two reasons for this: Firstly, they need room to move incase they come under fire. If you're on their arse and they take fire, they're going to move back into you, get stuck in the open and get shot. Secondly, enemies tend to fire at where someone is, not where they're going to be. So if the guy you're following is spotted and fired on and you're on his arse, you're gonna end up walking into a bullet. * No area is ever clear - Always expect an enemy to be around every corner and behind every tree. It doesn't matter how many friendlies have moved through the area and "cleared" it, until you have verified that an area is free of enemies with your own eyes, expect it to be hot. Even when you've cleared an area yourself, don't let your guard down. 4. Your Role - As mentioned the initial focus is on infantry fireteams. So your role is going to be working as a 4 man unit and supporting your fire team leader in accomplishing the tasks given to him. The basic essence of this is: Follow your leader. Always maintain visual contact with your team leader (or buddy if split into pairs), watch your leader's movements and position yourself off of him. * Secondly, Communicate. A team without communication is just a bunch of lemmings that are gonna walk into enemy fire. Keep your team updated on any relevant information. Spot enemies, report it. Spot friendlies that you were unaware of, report it. Hear an engine, report it. And that's it really. I could go into more detail about formations, bounding, fire and move and on but these are things that will be picked up as we go. It may seem like a lot of information to read through but the majority of it is common sense that just needs stating so that everyone is on the same page. Don't worry if you aren't sure about it all, these things will be talked about and demonstrated during sessions, any questions can be asked during those times. Finally then, the initial point of the thread. Everyone who is wanting to attend this kind of weekly arma session please post and include what days/time you would be available. Remember to include your timezone. Roster: Calv Terremer ColdNfreeziN lupago =VG= Murderface Sam Switch Jager Savage AirborneAlways Castor Pvt. Charry Ingo Time/Day Saturdays 19:00 GMT (14:00 CDT)

AirborneAlways LAN_WROTE ... Give me 5 guys and a littlebird pilot that understand nap-of-the-earth flight. Pilot and troops have to understand insertion and extraction without the bird actually touching down (no auto hover). Extraction perhaps, but I would always stay clear of hot insertions. I've done it lots of times, even fastrope insertions onto buildings and while it looks cool and can be fun, it is always unnecessary, people always die, and there are no advantages to doing it. Inserting at least 300m from a target always provides more tactical options and greater success rate.

lupago =VG= LAN_WROTE ... The thing is that i dont really know how you call everything. I mean, (questions :OOOO) This is what i have understood, the platoon is the hole team, the comander directs the platoon, the platoon is divided in squads organized by each squad leader, the squads are divided in 2 fireteams organized by the fireteam leader, each squad has 5 soldiers, each fireteam has 2 soldiers. RIGHT??? Not sure if the structure has been nailed down yet, it will depend on how many people are going to be turning up regularly. I believe we are likely to use a structure similar to the one used by shacktac: http://ttp2.dslyecxi.com/ The basics units are: Platoon = 46 men. Made up of 3 squads, plus a command team of 4 men. Squad = 14 men Made of 3 fireteams plus Squad Leader and Squad Medic. Fireteam = 4 men. Typical makeup would be: Fire Team Leader, Rifleman, Automatic Rifleman (or Machinegunner) and "specialist" (depending on mission 4th man could be Designated Marksman, AT, Medic, Grenadier.) Buddy Team = 2 men. Basically you split the fireteam in half, least experienced person (usually the rifleman) sticks with the team leader, while the automatic rifleman and 4th man stick together. Buddy teams will generally want to stay within visual range of each other. So at first the main focus is likely to be filling one squad (3 fireteams), and having the squad leader act as "commander".

Murderface LAN_WROTE ... yeah that was a good way of seeing how these drills will affect our game, and i haveto say last night was probably some of the tightest Arrowhead shit i've seen in a long time. and i was going to, but was just too tired :P i aced my job interview today though, it must have been from the uplifting battles in Takistan :P haha Question is: Did you use your insurgency time as an example of "working in a team" ;)

Callsigns will likely be used but you want to keep them simple and short so that people can remember them and say them quickly. Something simple like Charlie squad with fireteams Charlie-1 and Charlie-2 and Delta Squad with fireteams Delta-1 and Delta-2 is decent enough. Want to avoid using alpha and bravo as callsigns as they are often used at the fireteam level for the buddy teams so could cause confusion. Support elements like armour, artillery, air, etc can have pretty much whatever callsign they want as the comms to them is usually less urgent. If acre is eventually used, callsigns are pretty much dropped in radio comms as each person only speaks to 3-4 people on his radio net so using numbers is quicker and easier to remember as it is universal. For example using the above squad layout: Fireteam members only have contact with the two other ft members and the ftl, usually they will identify themselves by name or buddy team (alpha/bravo). The fire team leader's command net has only 2 other people on it, the other FTL and the SL. Squad leader is identified as 6 (or 9 or 0 depending on the country.), charlie-1 ftl is 1, and charlie-2 ftl is 2. The squad leader command net works the same, he will have the other SL and the Platoon commander. Plt Cmd is 6 (or 9 or 0), Charlie SL is 1, delta SL is 2. Support elements like arty/air would usually be in direct contact with the platoon commander only, but could be put on the same net as the Plt cmd/Squad leaders for smaller missions to enable quicker responses. So comms on any of the radio nets is as simple and short as: 1, 6, how copy?, over. 6, 1, good copy, over.. This way nobody has to worry about remembering callsigns, as your superior is always 6 (9/0) and your peers are numbered accordingly, which in combat the less you have to remember the better.

As FTL your main job is of course commanding the three other people in your team. This means that you need to know the general abilities of the people in your team. In an experienced team, very few orders will need to be given as they will know how to move and flank etc, however for newer people you will need to be more aware of what they are doing and provide more specific instructions, even upto telling them what cover to use and how far to move to the next cover etc. FTL is probably the only "command" role where micro-managing is not a bad thing. A key tool for fireteams that makes FTL's jobs easier is the Buddy team system. Simply put you split your fireteam into 2x two man teams. We typically refer to them as alpha and bravo but anything will work as long as the team members understand. Usually each fireteam will have at least one experienced member who can be the lead for the bravo buddy team, while the ftl takes lead of alpha team. This system provides two benefits, firstly it allows you to not worry too much about any newer players as they can just be told to follow their buddy and point their gun in the opposite direction. If their buddy is looking left, they look right etc. Secondly, it gives you flexibility needed for bounding and flanking maneuvers. Bounding: Simple concept that will keep your team alive. It can be applied on a squad, fireteam or buddy level depending on the situation. Basically one element covers a sector where enemies are expected while the other element moves, then they swap roles. There are many variables that can alter the way it is performed, whether you're advancing/retreating, the enemy is engaged and one element is suppressing/no enemies spotted but the core idea is the same. So even when working as an individual fireteam you will want to apply bounding when moving through areas where you expect enemies to be, especially urban environments that have lots of corners and blind spots. Another task of the FTL is to relay information to his team. This isn't as big of an issue in vanilla arma as everyone is gonna hear everything anyway, but it's good practice especially if acre is going to be introduced eventually. Team members don't like being in the dark about what they're going to do and what everyone else is doing, so keeping them updated on basic information like where the other teams are, where you plan to move to and what you plan to do are all very good for keeping the engaged and switched on. It's also extremely helpful for when you take a bullet, rather than your team being left directionless they will have a general idea of where to go and what to do. There are other things that are helpful such as how formations are setup, who stands where, what direction they cover, what to do when something starts firing in your direction, to always move after firing etc but those things are often common sense and can be picked up as you play. Generally just telling them to cover the opposite direction to their buddy is enough and hit the deck and get to cover when a shot is heard, is enough. One final tip that I'm starting to adopt is: Don't rush. Speed and momentum are vital for staying alive, but too many people want to kill every enemy within the first minute of a firefight that they start rushing and stop thinking. Basic tools such as smoke grenades and underbarrel GLs and even communication get forgotten in the heat of battle. Staying behind cover and assessing the general area then having one buddy team employing suppression fire, smoke and explosives while the other moves to flanking cover will generally keep everyone alive.

SavageCDN =VG= LAN_WROTE ... Training mission is a definite must.. a few people have mentioned it and if I had more time I would have whipped something up. Slapped together a basic warmup/training area for ya. Has slots for 2x infantry squads (+squad leader and medic each) and a commander, so 21 slots total. Has respawn on but no idea about join in progress so ya may need to mess with it a bit. Put everything into a .rar so ya can make any needed changes before using it. vg_trainingarea.zargabad.rar

LAN_WROTE ... Training mission is a definite must.. a few people have mentioned it and if I had more time I would have whipped something up. I'd love to do ACE/ACRE versions as well but I have little to no experience in mission making for ACE. It's no different really. I've just started mission making and finished my 3rd mission, all with ace/acre stuff, plus some other mods like the EOD mod. In the editor the only module you have to add to the mission is the ACE wound system if you want the full healing options. Everything else just works. For a training area ace/acre adds a large selection of ammo boxes to the unit list, so can literally just dump down an acre radio box, US weapons box and US launchers box and ya set. ACRE automatically replaces any standard radio with a 343, so for standard missions if everyone is gonna be within a few hundred metres of each other they'll be fine, usually only have to add 148s to maybe the ftls/command and you add them just like any other item, classnames can be found on the acre website. With ace missions you may want to add earplugs, morphine and epi to each player but that's easy enough as well, can find all the ace classlists here: http://wiki.ace-mod.net/Classlists

Apologies for not being at the event, other stuff came up. Looking at the comments most of the "issues" seem to be stuff that is expected at a first event. Things like command structure, organised teams, squads etc will all be easy to implement once everyone is comfortable turning up on time and has arma and ts working correctly. If you're going to be running missions I would suggest the creation of a "training/warmup" mission. Something simple like a HQ, weapon crates, and shooting range dropped someplace in the desert is enough. Just allows everyone to join, get setup, and discuss/sort out any issues, and blow off some steam before the more "serious" missions begin. Could also be worth considering having two separate arma days. One with vanilla where everyone can slot in whether they want and relax a bit, and an ace/acre sessions with pre-set fireteams and a more organised, serious tone. For the vanilla stuff the main thing is gonna be comms discipline. Pretty easy to manage though, everyone sticks to in-game Group VON, then reserve TS for FTLs/command to communicate. Second thing would be buddy teams. Simple concept that helps keep everyone alive and together. For the more serious possible ace/acre stuff: Establish a set roster based on who is turning up each session and split everyone into 4 man fireteams, throw experienced or eager players into the FTL roles, and depending on the mission/number of players maybe a squad leader/command player to keep people organised. Would advise to focus mainly on infantry to begin with until a few fireteams are running and effective, with some basic fireteam knowledge such as where to stand in a line, column, wedge formation, what sectors to cover when in formation or standing still, buddy teams, how to bound. Once you've got some fireteams formed I'm happy and available most times to help teach them the basics, it's a bit more difficult without SThud but doable.

To begin with just getting everyone online at the same time for an hour or two and running through basic missions included in Arma and Ace etc would be fine. Just to get everyone acquainted and some good practice working as teams. I think that ACE, ACRE and STHUD would be a good starting point. While ACE and ACRE have a lot of differences and features, most of them can largely be ignored to begin with. The basics (medic system, weight limit, 343 radios and direct speaking) can easily be explained in about 10 minutes. It would probably be a good idea if someone who is good with the editor could create a "lobby" style map. Just a basic area with a HQ area with weapon/radio crates and a shooting range would be enough to begin with. Mainly would be used as a warmup area before starting missions and an area to give training on the ACE/ACRE features. I would perhaps try mods like I44 and VTE after a couple weeks when people have gotten used to working together. It's a bit of an adjustment going from the "rambo" style gameplay of persistent game modes like Domi and Insurgency to the more cautious, team-oriented nature of the single life missions. So the less people have to learn at first, the better.

Pvt. Charry LAN_WROTE ... Hey guys. I make some missions on Vietnam The Experience. I like to make my missions very similar to a film or something like that. It's nice to have a good Vietnam athmosphere with music, animations and this kind of stuff. My idea is, to make a many coop missions and make a story, so we don't just play the missions, we'll get a story with these missions, too. I already made a Base on the island MBG VIETNAM. Cheers Aye, that's kinda what me, jager and the LAMBS guys do. They create a campaign and each session is another day and our success or failure in completing objectives, finding intel etc is incorporated into the next mission.

BurnitDown LAN_WROTE ... I was playing under the name Adam during this event, sorry for the confusion. Bad news for the FRAPS videos that i took. They were all full screen, making the files too large to create a video I can put on youtube. I also cant figure out how to make it record TS audio alongside game audio, because TS audio is diverted to a USB headphone, so no one can really tell whats happening anyways. Maybe next time though. Either way, I had fun and we should definitely do it again. Don't you have game audio playing through the same headphone?

Gaz LAN_WROTE ... More than up for it When me and semler can get my arma too work once again ;-) Why, what'd you do to break it? :p

I expect the cost is reflective of the materials and construction quality. And it being a fairly niche item so lack of competition = higher price. I don't think it is that expensive when I consider how many hours a day/week/year I spend at my computer. A normal armchair could cost around the same.

I believe there are a few people here with A-10, not sure about BS2. I enjoyed learning the A-10 and am fairly competent at it, but haven't really got a decent setup to use my HOTAS for long before it becomes uncomfortable. Been looking at getting something like: http://www.playseat.com/shop/eu/uk/flight-simulator/flight-simulator-chair.html But it's a fair amount to drop at once. Wouldn't mind giving BS2 a try but I'm a bit put off by it being a russian chopper,

Couldn't connect to the I44 server, had everything installed/updated via sixupdater but still no joy. :( But yeah, ace insurgency would be cool, would also help having some regular sessions arranged, even just getting a squad worth of people on every other day would help bring more people in.

Agree with a lot of what you said and the main cause for all of it is: Profit. I'm sure things like piracy, cheating etc are all factors, but from I hear it is a lot easier and cheaper to design a game for a console and then make it work on a PC, then vice-versa. Consoles have a lot more limitations than PC so designing the game with these in mind from the start is the most profitable option. Add to this the fact that console gaming is the emerging market, with players that desire simple games that require little thought and lots of instant gratification and it's clear why PC gamers are being shafted. I mean, why go to all the effort and expense of making an ultra-realistic, thinking man's game like ARMA3, knowing from the start that your profits are limited by being PC only, when you could just churn out a CoD clone, for half the time and expense, and profit from all 3 major platforms. As for the example you give of a title being released first in the US and then pirated in Europe. This is one situation where I can't blame the people for pirating. In today's world it is completely ridiculous to not have global release dates. I would argue that most of the people in the EU who pirated that game would have quite happily purchased it had it been available, but if companies continue to make games and such inaccessible then people will find another way. Even the couple day delay between US and EU for standard game releases is stupid nowadays. It's crazy that I can purchase a game on Steam the same day as someone in the US, but have to wait an additional 2-3 days to play it. As for all the additional filtering and costs that are being brought onto the internet for various content, that is one of the main reasons why pirating will only increase. The more companies try to squeeze every possible penny out of the internet, the more people are going to turn away and find other ways of getting that content. Personally the only things I tend to download are TV shows for the reason mentioned above, stupid delays between the US and UK. I can either download a show the day after it airs in the US, or wait 3-4 months+ for it to be aired in the UK. I pay a Sky TV subscription so as far as I'm concerned I have already paid for that content and if they are unwilling to allow me to watch it when it is originally aired then I will find another way to watch it. I can honestly imagine PC gaming being re-booted sometime in the future. As the big companies like EA continue to focus consoles and churning out crap that will please the lowest common denominator PC gaming will decline until it reaches a point where the companies like EA will stop bothering to release games on the PC at all and focus entirely on consoles. This void can then be filled by upcoming indie developers that care more about the game than the profit and the absence of any real competition will catapult them into the limelight and they'll become the new PC exclusive developers. You can already see things like that happening with games like minecraft and other indie games that are supported by Valve through steam and such that appear out of nowhere.

Gloucester: New York: Dallas: Chicago:

5 riflemen = 5 distractions while I pick off the enemy.

dman248 =VG= LAN_WROTE ... Ace + Campaign = no ear plugs, don't do it. Could probably use LEA to get round that.