Define BASERAPE?

[=VG= XOR]

It seems there's a new 'interpretation' in the air,  someone care to articulate it?

 

Edit: To be clear I understand it to be any activity involved in skipping flags, question is, Why the sudden surge in blanket & arbitrary enforcement, if it's to do with enforcing written rules then let's enforce CAMPING rules all the same, otherwise let's find a better solution than the absurd & arbitrary enforcement as of late, that makes round more frustrating than fun.

[ranger_12]

the question is who is not enforcing the rule. as i know i never let base rape go without me warning or at least speaking to the rapers (when it happens and i see that). Cas is the most disturbing asset at base raping. if ppls who fly cas can behave better and wait and be patience its alright.

[ranger_12]

1 hour ago, X0R said:

 

 

Suggestion, if base rape has become such a big problem, just triple bot tickets, halve their vehicle spawn times & max out bot difficulty.

 

 

Base rape is against the rules.

[=VG= XOR]

39 minutes ago, ranger_12 said:

Base rape is against the rules.

So is CAMPING ranger, shall we enforce that then...

 

I'm all for enforcing the rule, just not arbitrarily & lacking common sense, as seems to be the case, recently.  &

Thanks for the quote,I feared I'd removed context for your reply after I edited the OP.

[=VG= .Blizzard.]

I am not sure if I am in a position unveil things and stuff that is only for admins and admins alone. The thing I can say is that the rules are enforced only by those that want to enforce them or feel able to do so. We often find in situations each day that tire us both mentally and physically and we might not want to enforce rules that day, but then when we find the ingame round is going south and we take action. Thing is that some are ... let me put it in a nice manner, sort of... a bit frustrated and react bad to some situations, but you as a player must know how to react as well not to turn this whole into a drama. 

All in all its about the admins choice, we always say that. You can`t just force one to do his job always, we are all here to enjoy the game sometimes.

If you say that someone is making their own rules or enforcing the rules wrong/ abuse the rules or even like you said do that arbitrarily and lacking sense, you can always send a message to m823us, Semler, Melon, Acro, Kav they always helped me out understand why things are like they are. 

[=VG= XOR]

@=VG= .Blizzard. I certainly didn't mean to make a mountain out of a mole hill, if I did, my apologies. However no player should be subject to opinionated action by any other, admin or not, VG or not, with that I hope you agree, articulate the rules & stand by them & by them we shall abide. 

 

All I'm asking is, if you want people to stop base raping, perhaps it's useful to articulate FOR THE PLAYERS whom you feel should be beholden, what exactly it is they may & may not do in this regard, that was & is my sole intent. Cheers.

 

EDIT: And no this post wasn't the product of a bad interaction with any one, just an observation, no more no less.

[=VG= Connor]

I think the issue with the Baserape rule is in some maps you kind of have to base rape a little otherwise it’s either really hard or just unplayable. Example: On Bamyan Std, once you get past the Delta flag and reach the mosque, BMPs snipe any CAS Helis from the airfield when they spawn. So the A10s have to get them before the reach the little town otherwise the helis are useless. It can be a very subjective rule to enforce I think. Just my thoughts!

[R-CON LangMaster]

''Baserape is the act of assaulting flags in an incorrect order. Including:

• Skipping more than one flag as infantry
• Skipping any flags while in an asset
• Attacking the enemy main base before cappable/attacking uncappable main
• Destroying enemy reinforcement routes (Bridges/Razorwire).
• Laying mines at enemy vehicle spawns.
• Attacking enemy supply lines or attacking beyond the current flag as CAS

Skipping 1 flag while playing infantry is allowed for strategical purposes. If no progress is being made you will be ordered to fall back. Examples include:

• Preparing to capture during a fast paced game
• Setting up FOBs
• Destroying forward emplacements  (not allowed to skip beyond next capable flag to destroy emplacements)

Skipping a flag must not overrule the no camping enemy main rule
AA and AAVs are the exception to the rule, and may be destroyed at such a time they pose a threat.''

I did not know you are NOT able to destroy beyond next capable flag emplacements, but as has been said some maps are not playble usually for a flying assets, as maps are sometimes small and quad guns can blast yo, but indeed base rape is here very often, and skipping flags as well, sadly sometimes you realize it too late (because as a player your are not focusing on finding out if there is a baserape going) when you find out there are no enemy assets on khamisyah for what ever reason, you really cannot see if they are just flying over the map or actually bombing the fuck out of enemies trying to push trough the city.

Etc Etc Cas has a huge view range, and many maps are very open, and i do understand being in a heli watching all over the battle field and you see a tank coming over there but it is still 3 flags far, you wont be like hey a tank, lets wait and let it come closer we cannot kill it yet. No, i am not seeing that happen in a heli, even tho i am rather staying on my feet or tracks.

[=VG= SemlerPDX]

I'm fairly certain it won't hurt anything for me to post this one little quote by @=VG= Melon Muncher to help clarify what is already very clearly spelled out in the rules:
 

On 9/30/2020 at 3:23 PM, =VG= Melon Muncher said:

AA and AAVs are the exception to the rule, and may be destroyed at such a time they pose a threat.

Obviously there is a little leniency for air assets to go past a flag because they might need to maneuver, more so jets than helicopters but at no point should they actively be attacking beyond the front lines.

------------------------

When we find reports of less than stellar performance regarding rule enforcement, we may ask that our Admin base step up and be the best they can be to help re-train the server (and it's player base) back to the way it is intended to run according to our rules.

8 hours ago, X0R said:

Why the sudden surge in blanket & arbitrary enforcement

Because there have been many confirmed reports of CAS disregarding the already existing rule.  There is nothing arbitrary about this, and there is no 'blanket' enforcement beyond cracking down on:

4 hours ago, X0R said:

... THE PLAYERS whom you feel should be beholden

This includes CAS pilots that seem to be ignorant of, or are disregarding the rule.  We have not updated or changed the rule, and our efforts to educate and/or eliminate those who might violate it is par for the course as we address the matter with those we put in charge of Administrating the game server, and ask that they ensure this rule is upheld.

 

8 hours ago, X0R said:

if it's to do with enforcing written rules then let's enforce CAMPING rules all the same, otherwise let's find a better solution than the absurd & arbitrary enforcement as of late, that makes round more frustrating than fun.

Pardon my frank tone, but we will address and enforce our rules by whatever means we deem fit for the situation, and we have an honorable track record in this regard going back a decade.  Presently, we have asked that our Admins observe and warn/kick/ban (as appropriate) players for any/all violations of our rules, including the Baserape rule.  We especially do not convolute one issue (such as Baserape) with another (such as Camping) when we are addressing any particular matter or issue, as it diminishes both and over complicates matters - just as we do not deal with every player violating a rule at one time, but individually and on a case-by-case basis, as the issues pop up.  All of our rules are enforced, there are no exceptions and even =VG= Clan Members and Admins are subject to them. 

If you have a problem with a player or Admin violating a Camping rule, report it.  If you have a problem with EVERYONE violating the Camping rule, create a report about that.  But please don't come asking about why we are enforcing our Baserape rule as if it is at the expense of not enforcing our Camping rule.

We certainly will not be changing the way we Admin our server just because you are getting frustrated while we deal with players and rules on our server - no offense intended at all, just being real with you.  If YOU are the person being dealt with, that's a different story and I'd suggest that you merely make yourself familiar with our rules, and ask if you have any questions - but let's be real here, bro:

You are complaining that we are enforcing rules on our server because it is frustrating you.  You are implying that we do not enforce our Camping rule.  And you think there is a better solution than addressing the player(s) who may be violating these rules in-game as the incident happens, as we always have.

Here's what you can do:  Learn the rules (asking if not understood*), report players (or Admins) who violate the rules, and then get back to playing the game.

Please do not mistake my frank tone for anything but just that - I'm not trying to be disrespectful or offensive, again I'm only being real with you.  It's a video game that has active management, and many routes for players to help make sure the server is running as it was intended.  We appreciate feedback, but we are operating the same as we have for ten years, and I don't see any reason to change that.  When Admins need something brought to their attention by our server management teams, we do so.  When Admins need to warn players to follow our rules in-game, they do so.  I don't see how this could be anything close to frustrating for the standard player (not involved in the situation), nor for the player getting dealt with who should understand the rules as we have written them (or ask).


If you have any specific questions, our Admins will be happy to clear it up.  We are all always trying to get and remain on the same page, but all Admins may have differing optics in the match at hand, and others yet may be new Admins in training that may not be as confident or experienced as they soon will be.  We are not a machine, our Admins are not tools, and we're all only Human.  Time and experience flow organically here.  We all do our best.

If you could please reply and let us know what part of the Baserape Rule, as quoted by LangMaster above, is unclear, we may have a better understanding of what you need clarity on.  It seems very clear, and there are plenty of specific examples listed.  We will not be creating a picture of every single map with demarcation lines, that would be absurd.

Help US help you.

[=VG= Connor]

@=VG= SemlerPDXHey, didn’t want to quote as it would take forever to cut everything out on phone for just one question; going from what I said about certain maps needing a bit of leeway, does the “act as we see fit” also go for that? What I mean is can we kill other assets like BMPs a few flags ahead if they cause it to be unplayable and of course if the current admins on the server feel its fine too. Or is it a set rule that this must only be AA and AAVs?

 

Cheers!

[=VG= SemlerPDX]

Define "unplayable"

I'll go first, though, and define CAS:

Close Air Support

The spirit and intent of the rule is clearly for the majority of CAS who replace that C with an A, standing for "Autonomous" instead, and maybe that S to mean "Strike".  Because it is a game.  When I run squads, and y'all know I don't anymore, but when I did, those who know me know I make frequent use of CAS, calling it in to get my squad past obstacles, achieve goals (within the rules) and I've never had to call on something I could not see, or visually recon, and I wouldn't do so for something all the way to hell and gone away from the front lines.... Because it is a game.  There are challenges in place to be met (in due course) for a reason.

FTR, I was also a CAS guy... for a time, "the" CAS guy whenever I could get in the pit with my gunner, Raven800.  I could literally park that choppi in the sky over the troops, drive to the corner store for another beer, and get back before Raven was Winchester on Ammo and ready to RTB (and I did... more than once).  Had every AA on every map memorized, and would use the rockets to save main gunner ammo. Loved it... but stayed within my sphere, and happily responded to support requests (otherwise, I hovered high and back from the troops on the front, out of earshot but in eyeline of threats)

"(attacking spotted target past the front line is also not allowed)"

[=VG= Connor]

Well like I said, on Bamyan Std, the helis are basically rendered useless after you reach a certain point in the map UNLESS the A10s kill the BMPs at pretty much their spawn points or just allow them to destroy the helis until they reach a point at which the A10s can kill them within the normal rules. BMPs are basically in par with AA other than the range at which they kill you, which in a place of no cover around you is still pretty far. There are a few maps that are kind of like this, where a BMP can kill you from around 2-3 flags away because of the open nature of the map and where the flags are located. I will say I am not defending baserape - I think baserape ruins the fun for others, especially when the CAS kills all assets way before they even get within shooting distance of infantry. I do however think their should be some exceptions for some layers/maps.

 

Also another point to bring up (using Bamyan as an example again), baserape as far as I understand it is based off of the amount of flags you attack the enemy ahead of the current attack flag(s). Where I think this can be kind of confusing is like on Bamyan - once into the the second half of the map where you really start to see the assets coming in, what can be classed as baserape per flags ahead? I ask this because the flags are so close, and by close I mean just a few buildings down. So would killing a BMP 2 flags ahead, a.k.a, just a few meters ahead, still be classed as baserape? If this is a bit confusing to read I understand so feel free to ask, I can clarify if needed.

[=VG= SemlerPDX]

1 hour ago, Connor said:

... does the “act as we see fit” also go for that? ...

I know you said you couldn't use the quote function, totally understandable... just need to note that what I had said was this:

4 hours ago, =VG= SemlerPDX said:

we will address and enforce our rules by whatever means we deem fit for the situation

and in context, I was referring to the (quote) "blanket & arbitrary enforcement" manner to which the OP was labeling our Admin's efforts to enforce our rules on our server.  We set clear standards and communicate those with our Server Admins in non-public areas of this website, as we do for our =VG= Clan Members in even less public areas of this website.  Our rules are neither a choice to be followed or not, nor a forced mandatory minimum sentence of action, either.  This is why it is not easy to be an Admin here, and why we work so closely with them to make sure things get corrected, and that everyone is aware of issues that arise over time.

[=VG= SemlerPDX]

26 minutes ago, Connor said:

Well like I said, on Bamyan Std, the helis are basically rendered useless after you reach a certain point in the map UNLESS the A10s kill the BMPs at pretty much their spawn points or just allow them to destroy the helis until they reach a point at which the A10s can kill them within the normal rules. BMPs are basically in par with AA other than the range at which they kill you, which in a place of no cover around you is still pretty far. There are a few maps that are kind of like this, where a BMP can kill you from around 2-3 flags away because of the open nature of the map and where the flags are located. I will say I am not defending baserape - I think baserape ruins the fun for others, especially when the CAS kills all assets way before they even get within shooting distance of infantry. I do however think their should be some exceptions for some layers/maps.

 

Also another point to bring up (using Bamyan as an example again), baserape as far as I understand it is based off of the amount of flags you attack the enemy ahead of the current attack flag(s). Where I think this can be kind of confusing is like on Bamyan - once into the the second half of the map where you really start to see the assets coming in, what can be classed as baserape per flags ahead? I ask this because the flags are so close, and by close I mean just a few buildings down. So would killing a BMP 2 flags ahead, a.k.a, just a few meters ahead, still be classed as baserape? If this is a bit confusing to read I understand so feel free to ask, I can clarify if needed.

You may attack enemy ground assets once they are attacking friendly ground units regardless of their location, where in such a situation, any fool in his right mind would be screaming for CAS support to take pressure off of the enemy ground assets actively attacking them.  What you may NOT do is "solve a problem before it becomes a problem", and this should apply to any situation where you call into question YOUR position, the ENEMY position, and the BLUFOR front lines.... If the FLOT is not under attack by these things you see, and they are (as stated in the rule) outside of standard engagement rules, then you may recon only -- getting attacked from ground to the air could happen with an enemy tank... but if you are where you are SUPPOSED to be, and well within your rights (again, as stated in the rule) to be there, and you're gonna get downed by some chard 2 KM away that can fall under the AA or AAV category, you are good to go...

If you are using any such situations as an excuse to pop off any enemy ground asset just because they landed a bullet on the chassis, there will be far less sympathy for any exception to the clearly defined rules.

 

58 minutes ago, =VG= SemlerPDX said:

"(attacking spotted target past the front line is also not allowed)"

 

[=VG= XOR]

@=VG= SemlerPDX apologies if I came off crass, I simply assumed a change in rules given the abrupt change in tone and merely suggested alternative tone-free systems to enforce the rule (hazards of working in automation) and thank you for the thorough & frank clarification,I most appreciate it, always.

 

Good day 

[ranger_12]

19 hours ago, X0R said:

So is CAMPING ranger, shall we enforce that then...

 

Camping with tanks or APCs while capturing the flag is alright in my opinion . but need to be in the flag Zone ! not ahead or in position were you can see and shoot down every enemy asset down coming as reinforcements in a distance (that's for some players who wants points and kills or for players who don't know the rules and want it a quick round) not for Pro players i guess.

[=VG= .Blizzard.]

21 hours ago, X0R said:

@=VG= .Blizzard. I certainly didn't mean to make a mountain out of a mole hill, if I did, my apologies. However no player should be subject to opinionated action by any other, admin or not, VG or not, with that I hope you agree, articulate the rules & stand by them & by them we shall abide. 

 

All I'm asking is, if you want people to stop base raping, perhaps it's useful to articulate FOR THE PLAYERS whom you feel should be beholden, what exactly it is they may & may not do in this regard, that was & is my sole intent. Cheers.

 

EDIT: And no this post wasn't the product of a bad interaction with any one, just an observation, no more no less.

Don`t worry I am a very open person to discussions, just wanted to let you know most of the time admins might not want to do their job as they should. And yeah, there should be a way we can transmit these rules more often ingame instead of just sending the players to the sand pit. This is where the warning comes in. Warn-kick-Ban, but in some situations we can decide just to kick or ban if something goes too wrong.  Anyways its all good! Prost!

[=VG= SemlerPDX]

I'm gonna go ahead and close this thread.  The OP's concerns have been addressed, and points of clarity have been made.

If anyone has any further specific questions about our rules, please feel free to create a new topic and we will do our best to provide answers and address any new concerns.  Thank you all for your feedback, and for your support!