Neutral Flags To Bots

[=VG= XOR]

 I'm just putting this out there, because It's one of those little things that bug me to no end, an itch in my brain. Neutral flags on round start just make maps even more boring than they might otherwise be, Muttrah, a shining example, attached is a trivial script that showcases a runtime fix that transfers ownership of neutral flags to bot team on round start, and yes, "VG does not use server side modifications...",  just me sharing my thoughts here as i seldom do.
 

Spoiler

For brevity, script falls under the scope of admin scripts per server license, as it makes no changes to gameplay, mechanics, nor client side modifications, to quote the docs, "# This file can be edited by any server (public or private).", there is a very deliberate reason that line exists at the very top of __init__.py,  It's as a reminder that you can make additions but not changes, as long as those additions don't modify gameplay in any way shape or form, a very simple example being addition of a custom !command.

 

Cheers.

NeutralFlagsToOpfor - ExtractTo - mods,pr,python,game.7z

[R-CON LangMaster]

Which map are you exactly talking about, my maps have neutral flags for a reason, black gold, adak, bijar, all of them have one neutral flag, so it gives the bots time to spread out aswell it gives players time to join and load up, i've recently added two flags to opfor on marlin inf aswell since that map was very simple with just the base.

Interesting script though i can't do this shit at all.

[=VG= XOR]

16 minutes ago, LangMaster said:

Which map are you exactly talking about, my maps have neutral flags for a reason, black gold, adak, bijar, all of them have one neutral flag, so it gives the bots time to spread out aswell it gives players time to join and load up, i've recently added two flags to opfor on marlin inf aswell since that map was very simple with just the base.

Any map, and considering what you said yourself, It also gives bots a reason to spreadout, having neutral files capped by THEM on round start, gives them more time to do so, as such flags would need to be neautralized and then capped by players.

[R-CON LangMaster]

I also wanna mention that many maps that have a neutral flag at start gives you time and saves you from ticket bleed within 15 minutes. But if you wanna point this out, this place is not the best for it.

[=VG= Connor]

11 minutes ago, LangMaster said:

But if you wanna point this out, this place is not the best for it.

Considering he is talking about using the script on the VG Server, I think it is the exact place for it

[R-CON LangMaster]

So you cannot run severside modifications yet a script that changes a map from what it is supposed to be is fine. Seems legit.

I get it you are just sharing your thoughts though if you don't wanna go against the rules you might still wanna go somewhere else than the VG forums Connor.

[=VG= XOR]

3 hours ago, LangMaster said:

So you cannot run severside modifications yet a script that changes a map from what it is supposed to be is fine. Seems legit.

I get it you are just sharing your thoughts though if you don't wanna go against the rules you might still wanna go somewhere else than the VG forums Connor.

You really should read the entirety of my post, incl hidden section.... I'm not entirely sure if the first statement was sarcasm or in jest, regardless, the foundation of facts isn't subjective interpretation but logical coherence, what this script does is nothing more than a manipulation of time, it alters nothing but progression of bots vs players, giving one a boost and tugging on the other.

That said, this post is in no regards about features for PR, been there done that, over it, It's  just me making an observation and exploring one of many possiblities in a public forum with like minded individuals like yourself. And like a majority of people who write code, 99% of what I write never sees the light of day, It's more about exploring possibilities than writing code in & off itself.

 

4 hours ago, LangMaster said:

I also wanna mention that many maps that have a neutral flag at start gives you time and saves you from ticket bleed within 15 minutes. But if you wanna point this out, this place is not the best for it.

I know, and I don't. If..else if the foundation of a great many things... need i say more.

[=VG= Kavelenko]

On 1/23/2022 at 2:29 AM, X0R said:

I'm just putting this out there, because It's one of those little things that bug me to no end, an itch in my brain. Neutral flags on round start just make maps even more boring than they might otherwise be, Muttrah, a shining example, attached is a trivial script that showcases a runtime fix that transfers ownership of neutral flags to bot team on round start, and yes, "VG does not use server side modifications...",  just me sharing my thoughts here as i seldom do.

Sorry for the late response @X0Rand please dont take this as a criticism of your ideas but here's my take on it. Yes, it would be more interesting to do that IF the server population can handle it otherwise it is a nightmare for low server pops. We've tried a similar idea in the past on Muttrah City and all it does is clean the server out when players fail to recapture Docks. It might be fun for experienced players to up the anti but we know how that turned out with maps like Khamisiyah lLRG (until it was re-designed), and Outpost both of which were designed by Double_13 who's aim was to make it hard or near impossible for us. He got bored with rolling through maps as well which I can sympathize with because some maps bore the hell out of me too.

We also had to create a map rotation list to deal with low server populations. There comes a time where veteran PR players always get bored with certain maps and then want to change the dynamics of the game to make it more challenging (for themselves) and it always becomes a nightmare for times where there are less experienced players on. Its always been a fine line between making a map playable for all conditions without it boring the majority of players. Hence the rules we have concerning heavy assets, spawn camping, flag jumping and the rest.

What I would like to see personally (if someone has the time) is maps like Kokan LRG being adjusted so we have more than one logi for the whole team, and the SL respawn fixed on that map.

And the ticket bleed issue as mentioned by @=VG= Zeee here:
 

 

[=VG= Kavelenko]

Case in point, Jabal STD will bleed out if West or East Beach is not captured in a reasonable time. We managed it today with a low pop but here we are still trying to cap Dam after an hour.

[=VG= 0100011000101]

2hours shots from all directions, 189 kills, 8 deaths, ~5500 points....^^

a little bit of ghost train on top of the dam^^

[=VG= Kavelenko]

4 hours ago, =VG= 0100011000101 said:

2hours shots from all directions, 189 kills, 8 deaths, ~5500 points....^^

You did well rofl!

[=VG= XOR]

On 1/27/2022 at 10:14 PM, =VG= Kavelenko said:

Sorry for the late response @X0Rand please dont take this as a criticism of your ideas but here's my take on it. Yes, it would be more interesting to do that IF the server population can handle it otherwise it is a nightmare for low server pops. We've tried a similar idea in the past on Muttrah City and all it does is clean the server out when players fail to recapture Docks. It might be fun for experienced players to up the anti but we know how that turned out with maps like Khamisiyah lLRG (until it was re-designed), and Outpost both of which were designed by Double_13 who's aim was to make it hard or near impossible for us. He got bored with rolling through maps as well which I can sympathize with because some maps bore the hell out of me too.

We also had to create a map rotation list to deal with low server populations. There comes a time where veteran PR players always get bored with certain maps and then want to change the dynamics of the game to make it more challenging (for themselves) and it always becomes a nightmare for times where there are less experienced players on. Its always been a fine line between making a map playable for all conditions without it boring the majority of players. Hence the rules we have concerning heavy assets, spawn camping, flag jumping and the rest.

What I would like to see personally (if someone has the time) is maps like Kokan LRG being adjusted so we have more than one logi for the whole team, and the SL respawn fixed on that map.

And the ticket bleed issue as mentioned by @=VG= Zeee here:
 

 

I welcome all criticism of my ideas, and all fair points, and certainly there're maps where giving up neutral flags on start is impratical and maps where starting neutral all but ruins the maps IMHO like muttrah which is down right boring starting neutral - arguably a crime against an otherwise fantastic map, and accommodating different 'settings' for different maps would be a trivial matter either way.


And your point about kokan lrg is my overarching point exactly, there's lots of little things like that than can be sorted using server side scripts without touching a single file, if we were inclined to, changes allowed by the server license but muddled by confusing outcries by some devs during previous attempts at modifications, that seems to have convinced far too many it's not worth the hastle, which tbh I agree with, but I digress, short of making these types of posts when something aggravates me enough, despite having a trivial solution, not much else I can do other than hop on some other game until I need my dose of PR.
 

 

[=VG= Kavelenko]

Yeah that's fair enough @X0R putting out new ideas to improve PR is always good, and I'm supporting you all the way! Keep it up.

Burning Sands STD is a classic example of a neutral first flag, Blufor Tanks & Apache have a delayed spawn but if Depot is not captured quick enough by an in-experienced team, its all over at the first flag. Where as, a good team will be neutralizing South City by the time the Apache spawns. Its really not a map issue but a lack of skill on the part of the Blufor team. Very difficult to design a map that caters for both scenarios.