=VG= Calv

Steam shouldn't be able to download any beta stuff. Would try a file validation in Steam, then running the game and checking what version it says on the main screen. If it somehow running a beta, completely deleting the Arma directory a re-download/install should sort it.

Speirs =VG= LAN_WROTE ... Suggestion: * formation training with a convoy Yeah, for the first time handling vehicles like this it wasn't too bad, but there's plenty of room for improvement. The biggest problem with the left/right herringbone formation was that nobody knew what direction the car in front was going to turn until after they turned. Plus we didn't really have set positions in the driving formation, I know semler outlined what he wanted, and it's clear what he was aiming to achieve with it by keeping the primary vehicles in the centre, but it was perhaps a little overcomplicated. The following: Demon1-1 - Lead Demon1-2 Demon2-1 Demon2-2 Demon3-1 Demon3-2 - Rear would've been simpler. But again, it's all due to inexperience with vehicle tactics. It's all a learning experience.

Ingo =VG= LAN_WROTE ... what server are you trying to join and are you running any mods? ^ This. Sounds like you're trying to join a server without the correct mods, or a non-mod server with mods.

Iffn LAN_WROTE ... -Rather than moving as one convoy, a "large" force like this could be much more effective if the it was devided into smaller elements, which could move more flexible rather than seperating it into vehicle operators and food soldiers. This would allow the 'high command' to focus on the bigger picture rather than to micro manage each unit. For example, each 6 or 8 man group could get a specific objective, defined by the 'high command', such as securing part of a town, clearing a road of ied's or searching for a weapon chache. Once completed, the group can move on to the next objective without having to wait for everyone. And on the notion of map markers: A far as I know, the position of all major US Army vehicles as well as all known enemy positions in a combat zone are maked with GPS in there network to enhance there situational awareness. Therefore, using map and unit markers would even be realistic, at least for squad learders or vehicle commanders. Moving as one convoy doesn't really have much relation to splitting into smaller elements. The smaller elements were already there. We had 3 seperate squads operating together, and then those squads were split into 2-3 teams. I wasn't on the infantry net so I'm unsure how the orders were given, but I would've expected each of the 2 infantry squad leaders to be given specific areas of the town to clear, which they would then split again between their FTLs. So while everyone were all in the same area, the smaller elements with specific tasks should still exist too. BluFor trackers do exist, but they're not available for each individual soldier to view. My personal opinion on marker usage is as follows: Group markers - no limit, feel free to place markers for every enemy or friendly position you feel is relevant for your team. Side markers - Only placed when all SLs are in one place, so during a briefing at the start, or a re-group after an AO is cleared. The main takeaway from it is that a quick brief before an assault makes things go much smoother. e.g. After clearing a town, SLs huddle together, next target is announced, dismount locations marked, and areas of responsibility noted. Only takes a minute or so, no micromanaging is needed from the CO, just simple task assignment: Squad 1 - clear the east side of town, Squad 2 - clear west side, Squad 3 - Overwatch/Support. HeXeY LAN_WROTE ... We won't necessarily have to use "over" and "out", though it would probably make it clearer, but atleast try and use "break" at times. Atleast I did not have binocs, neither in the form of the good old ones, or a Vector. Might've chosen the wrong kit though... -.- But thanks for the game! Hope we can do it again and you want us back! Over/Out can make a huge difference to comms clarity though. As you mentioned there are a lot of times when people end up talking over each and such. By using over/out it becomes much easier to know when you can transmit without cutting someone off.

HeXeY LAN_WROTE ... would love for the FTL/SL/CMD kits to have binocs. On the town with the gas station, we had some fuckups where Echo-1, I believe, was dropped off quite a bit ahead of Echo-2, and I had to kinda improvise as I was not sure exactly what was going on. Regarding comms: Everyone, I like to think that Banter aren't that bad at it, but we are at times, (not me of course, I'm perfect), need to use comms more knowingly (can't find the proper word...). But we had a lot of cases where people would talk over eachother on the 117 net, especially when you tried to call in the helis. I for some reason decided not to tell you at the time, no idea why, but command and Outlaw were talking over eachother, you had comms when the helis approached town the first time, and command was lead to believe that Outlaw could not be reached. When you try and call someone, give them a chance to answer, like 5+ seconds. There was also a case, in the town with the minaret I believe, where Will was sending a message to command and he said "break", released the radio and started talking again. During this small pause, which he did notify of, but not sure if you are familiar with it being used, command came with a reply. And as such, command and Will were talking over eachother, neither could hear the other and I had to relay the little info I managed to snap up from command to Will. So basicly, give time before you start talking on the radio, try and avoid interrupting unless it is very important, and we need to agree on the use of "break". "Break" could we used during long messages to let important messages interrupt and come through, give the messager time to take a breath and think over what has been said and what still needs to be said, and for us foreigners, translate some of the stuff we're about to say, it doesn't always happen as fast as we'd like. Please try and avoid holding the key while talking, again, to let important messages come through and such. Use "break". Unless you lot have very much against it of course... They have Vectors, which function the same as binocs, no? Haven't used binocs that much so unaware if there is a magnification difference. The gas station town was my due to desync on my end. By the time I realised, it was too late to turn back or anything so did my best to provide some cover while everyone caught up. Was a bad situation but everyone adapted to it well. Yeah, I know the Lambs guys have comms pretty much sorted, with correct usage of over, out, and break to keep things organised, but we haven't really done much "official" comms usage with VG. Most people are loosely aware of what the terms mean, but lack the practice for them to be used instinctively.

WillBant LAN_WROTE ... Then throw the infantry out and tell them to advance while the MRAPs threw fire at anything they could see?. This lead to a least two incredibly close blue on blues. One of which lead to my team running back past Demon 2 (calv and starchy) screaming in terror like the women we are as mk19 was poured into the position I had been told to clear five meters away. That came second place as my highlight of the evening :D Markers - I don't like the idea of using markers during a mission as it seems a little bit like meta-gaming, but more of a clearer plan at the start would've made them unneccessary anyway. Planning - I wasn't on the infantry comms net so haven't really commented on this, but for this kind of operation where multiple towns are going to be hit, a simple plan would've sufficed. Something as basic as organising the teams into a line, and then having the teams maintaining that line when clearing towns, e.g. when approaching a town, Fox teams clear the left side of the road, Echo clears right. Simple idea that would've given the vehicles a better idea of where to stop to benefit the team they were carrying. The other option is to re-group after each AO/town and brief the SL/FTLs on the assault plan for the next AO, place some dismount markers etc Comms with MRAP - Agreed, think I mentioned in one of my previous posts that it could've been simpler to attach the driver/gunner to the team they were carrying and essentially remove the Demon squad altogether. This could've also removed the 3-radio burden as the vehicle could act as RO between the SL and CMD, or FTL and SL. The other possibly simple option would be to mount a 343 radio in the MRAPs to give them comms with the team they carry. Cache - Agreed, we had a box full of launchers in the MRAPs, wasn't sure why we didn't just rocket it. 343 nets - I'd say that this is down to the SL/FTLs. I know the Lambs guys have operated multiple teams on a flat 343 net before when it was clear the teams were operating in close proximity, but personally I dislike having other teams on my 343 ch. It's often hard enough hearing 148 radio in combat with just my team members, could become a real nightmare with more teams on it. That said, if you as SL and your teams prefer a flat net for you guys, it doesn't really effect anyone else so I would've just switched over to one ch if I was you. FTL Loadout - When making the loadouts I considered giving the FTL a 117, but ultimately decided against it due to the fact that the majority of the time they only need the 148 to comm with SL who has the 117. Plus if desired they can grab one from the crate, or select the CMD loadout which is pretty much identical to the FTL one but with a 117. Could be worth changing the name of the CMD loadout to Squad Leader as I'm guessing you would've picked that loadout then. As you mention though, most of that is due to inexperience with managing large numbers of people in one mission. For our first time it was surprisingly smooth.

I did suggest grabbing a 148 at the start before we got the vehicles, in hindsight I should've made it an order. In future all vehicles should have a 148 mounted as standard. As for the orders, at the first town (when you informed me that Antoin had d/c) we didn't get any orders, so all the vehicles sat doing nothing. At the next town we again didn't really get any specific orders, it was really down to the driver/gunners to use their initiative. I'm sure I said that I was moving to the left of the town to support echo, after that I didn't give any new orders because we didn't have any, I was moving as I saw fit. If you were unsure of what you should've been doing you could've asked over the radio. There's also the fact that this was the first time using vehicles in this manner, so SL/FTL were essentially making it up as we went. Personally I don't tend to give that many orders to team members, I expect them to use their initiative and stick with me without me having to specifically order them to follow me, which works fine on foot, but clearly not so well in vehicles.

Jager LAN_WROTE ... Random suggested fewer vehicles and I agree, at least if we come across equal enemy forces like we did on Saturday. Yeah, been trying to think of the "best" convoy makeup for the number of people we had. Swapping the MRAPs for Strykers wouldn't make any difference as they both hold 5 passengers. Bradleys hold 6 I believe, but then also have a ton more firepower plus thermal so are not a good choice. Possibly the most ideal setup would be along the lines of 2x MRAPs and 2x MTVRs. We would've only needed a single team to drive/gun the MRAPs, and the infantry teams could take responsibility for driving the MTVRs, parking them up and doing a full dismount so nobody gets stuck with a dull driving role in a non-combat vehicle. Would've given us more boots on the ground without completely removing heavy gun coverage if needed.

SemlerPDX =VG= LAN_WROTE ... Gunners Review My gunners were having technical issues reloading their M2 mags and therefore, when players disconnected, we consolidated into remaining MRAPS. _________________ To expand on that, the issue seemed to be related to M2 mags that weren't completely full. For some reason it refuses to load "used" mags at all, but will only use the first mag in your inventory. Could just have been coincidence but loading the ammo from outside of an empty vehicle seemed to work better too, but not 100% on that. With some messing around of swapping and dropping M2 mags I managed to reload a couple into my vehicle over the course of the mission, but it was a huge hassle. If we use vehicles again we should ensure to have a vehicle ammo box loaded in one (if that's possible), or consider having the vehicle's SL taking an ammo truck. Also, I realise this was the first time driving in vehicles like we did for many people so it was a lot of playing it by ear, but for future missions we should make it much clearer on how to react when contact is made. Obviously when approaching an AO a stop and dismount is done. However, when unexpected contact is made en route, like for example on the way back to base we had a couple contacts appear from some small buildings after the first couple vehicles had driven past. This situation could've gone really bad, really fast. As the lead vehicles kept driving through the town and halted at a secure distance, while the rear vehicles seemed to stop in the middle of the buildings. I'd say the default action in these situations should be to drive on. Whenever unexpected contact is made, especially in an urban environment, the vehicles should keep driving until they reach a "safe" location where they can spread out and dismount. Even if a vehicle is disabled, it sounds harsh, but they should be left behind temporarily while we reach a secure location, then work backwards to clear the way to them.

SavageCDN =VG= LAN_WROTE ... Yeah I agree a simple pad is best.. it's on the todo list :) I came across a vehicle repair/rearm script for a mission I was making awhile back. May be worth looking at if it'll serve the purpose for us, or modify for our needs perhaps? Seems simple enough, just land/drive onto the pad, scroll menu to Service. Think it only works with stock Arma 2/OA vehicles, but should be fine for the attack choppers we use. Looked simple enough to alter the script for modded vehicles too, just a case of adding classnames and ammo types to the script. gc_vrs.rar

poffadder =VG= LAN_WROTE ... We managed to lose three MRAPS and two blackhawks, some of the MRAPS were discarded due to the lack of a crew. Lets try not to waste as many assets next time. I was towing the extra MRAP from my team until ordered to leave it behind, not sure why. But after we lost the MRAP at the next town I heard talk of going back for the one we left, did that not happen? Also we brought Gaz's MRAP back to base, new coat of paint and it'd be fine ;)

Demon-2 Calv (Driver) Starchy (Gunner) Antoin (Driver) Harry (Gunner) I'll start by avoiding any and all blame for there being no satchels in the vehicles. Semler loaded a medical box and launcher crate into Demon-1, while I loaded a medical box and basic weapons crate into Demon-2. At no point was the word "satchel" mentioned to me :p So after loading up, I believe I had Echo-2 in my vehicle, and I think my subordinate vehicle was empty. Shortly after starting, Antoin informed me he was getting heavy desync and eventually disconnected around the first dismount area, leaving Harry to drive/gun. At this first area the vehicles didn't do much, we essentially just twiddled our thumbs for several minutes. At the next area (the one that needed the satchel) I decided to keep my vehicle with the team I was transporting. So after they dismounted I moved around the left of the city, covering their flank. Which was lucky I did as not only did we neutralise many contacts within the city, but also found a 3-man patrol that had flanked the entire length of the city and was almost behind the dismount location. When the town seemed to have settled down, we had been taking fire from a single-shot rifle that seemed to be south someplace. Turned out to be 2 contacts laying just over the southern ridge-line that were unhappy when I parked my mounted gun next to them :( During all this Harry had disconnected leaving me with one vehicle, my gunner (starchy) was concerned with his ammo supply, so we unloaded as much ammo from our current vehicle, switched to the now empty vehicle, and towed the other. Several hours later a satchel arrived and we mounted up and left that place. The next town to clear was the one with the parallel main roads and minaret (I probably should've taken note of town names), after dismount the infantry seemed to be taking heavy fire from the town. So again I drove on Echo's flank but couldn't fire on much due to the heavy trees. So while they were busy cowering behind a wall, I drove forward to the northern-most road for a clear sight into town. Neutralised numerous contacts inside the town, and held position while waiting for the infantry to catch up and move into the town. We then slowly progressed along the road neutralising more contacts that came running around the corner away from the Mk19 vehicle. Didn't work out as they planned. While driving out the minaret compound to reform at the centre of town we heard several hostile voices inside the buildings, which we then reported to the numerous infantry running past our vehicle, which then proceeded to run in the opposite direction. So after a few minutes of no-one going near the compound, me, starchy and Gaz moved up on foot and cleared it ourselves. One contact was neutralised. Next up was the gas station town, which began a bit disorganised due to desync. One minute I was following the vehicle in front towards the town, the next I was alone. Quickly pulled off the road and to some minor cover on a small hill for Echo to dismount. Attempted to provide cover fire for them but had no visual and we were too far forward of everyone else to do much yet. Held position and used my vehicle as cover for a wounded guy as he was patched up. Once the assault began in full I began moving to the trees east of the town, came under heavy fire and just as I was about to decide to move further in, another Demon vehicle came flying down the hill straight into a rocket. Provided some cover until the other demon teams had the situation under control then moved round to the west of town. From the west had good sight lines into the town, but no visuals, despite taking heavy small arms and mg fire. Seemed all contacts were inside buildings. Starchy began lining up a shot on one such contact but took a bullet before he could fire. Moved back to heal him, then remained on the perimeter as the infantry cleared the town. I think it was at this point that the Banter guys disconnected and Liquid's team piled into my vehicle before I could drive away. Next town was the northernmost one, the vehicles held position out of sight until the infantry had eyes on the town and were ready to move. This town was very spread out with no visual obstructions, so the vehicles essentially surrounded the town from the hills and neutralised most of the threats. Was at this point we began our journey back to base. First stop along the way had a fair amount of contacts and I drove my vehicle down the main street while infantry cleared the buildings on either side. Was expecting to take an RPG at any moment but came out unscathed. I "think" it was at this town when we began to take some mg fire from a compound to the southwest, my vehicle was extremely low on ammo so we went full assault on the compound and drove straight through the wall, neutralising several contacts before running completely dry on ammo and starchy taking a bullet. Demon-1 pulled up to join us too and took down a couple contacts outside the compound before taking some wounds. After patching starchy up one more contact ran into the compound and was quickly neutralised and we reformed with the rest of the vehicles. Rest of the journey back was uneventful except for Gaz getting his vehicle shot by a rocket like a noob. After I stopped laughing I turned my vehicle around and neutralised several contacts from range before moving up with the rest of the infantry. The area was cleared and Gaz was laughed at some more. We returned to base and mission accomplished. Feedback: * Late start - Yeah it sucks, but shit happens. * Roles - I can imagine some of the VG guys not being happy about sitting in a vehicle the whole time, I wasn't exactly looking forward to it, but had a good laugh with the guys I transported and with starchy. And managed to make our vehicle tactically useful by keeping it moving in useful positions. * Squad/team slots: I realise that the main focus was to have each of the three gaming groups have their own teams. But if we do another mechanized infantry mission it could be worth considering forming 6-man teams. For example if the driver and gunner had attached themselves to the fireteam they were transporting. They'd still remain with the vehicle but the infantry and vehicles would've been more aware of each other during assaults and supported each other more effectively. It would also have removed some of the burden off of Poff as it would've been one less squad to deal with. Would only do this with cars though, if we used Bradleys having them in a seperate squad makes more sense. * Convoy size: 6 vehicles in convoy was possible a bit much, if we have that many people again would probably be worth using the strikers to cram more people into less vehicles. Overall I had a good time, was laughing most of the night and the few small issues we had didn't really cause that much of a problem. And Gaz's vehicle getting hit by a rocket directly in front of me was a perfect end to the event. :D

PITN LAN_WROTE ... Change request: Replace MAAWS with AT4 or AT4 CS Or any LAT with open sights compatable with NVG. During night missions the scope on the MAAWS/SMAW are not NVG capable. It is possible to have a grenadier fire a flare to illumninate the area and then you can fire but this requires some teamwork. If the MAAWS remains then ensure that flares are in the grenadier kit. The AT4 CS is included in the RIfleman/AT loadout, so during a night op if an AT specialist was required they'd just have to take that loadout instead, or consider taking the Javelin if armor is expected. Would be nice to have flares in the ammo crate though.

Following the typical squad makeup like that is usually gonna require more men than we'd have access to, especially if other assets like chopper transport/CAS are used. I'd be looking more at a single, slightly larger 3 team squad. SL Medic FTL Rifleman/AT AR Grenadier FTL RIfleman/AT Or AT Specialist LMG Designated Marksman FTL RIfleman/AT AR Grenadier

OK, loadouts all posted at top. Comment on the following: Flashbangs - gonna remove em unless persuaded not to Binoculars - worth adding to loadouts without vectors?

Gaz =VG= LAN_WROTE ... My point here is, the loadout, I used the M4 from the loadout, everything else was thrown. Backpack was a 0.5KG heavier than it has to be, No medical supplies really, Some random crap in the backpack like IR strobes and smokes.. The only thing i need from the kit was the M4 ironsights it gave me. Other than that i spent all my time getting rid of everything it gave me, then re-established my kit from bottom up once again, a process that usually takes me about 1:30 to about 3-4 minutes of confusion and fustration.. The point is, why give me the backpack if it dosnt have any medical supplies, It weighs 0.5 more than it should, is packed full of basically useless stuff.. I could just stop grab some hand grenades, if it as a night op, some IR strobes and i'd be good... theres no need to add all the filler stuff that can be done by anyone in 30 seconds.. it just makes it that much longer... The reason the backpacks aren't filled with medic gear is that having every soldier running around with tons of medical equipment removes the point of having medics. As stated in the loadout thread though, backpacks will be empty for most loadouts, obvious exceptions being Medic and AT Specialist. The strobe was an item the script maker had in there that I missed when removing stuff. My POV on the purpose of the loadouts is mainly to add a little realism by everyone carrying related weapons, having standardised equipment such as frags/smokes/basic IFAK, and choosing weapons that allow the most versatility while being able to share ammo. When I said the script over to savage I'll include a list of all the ammo/usable items included in the loadouts, which will hopefully lead to just one ammo crate in the spawn area that will enable re-supply and backpack filling.

Nvram =VG= LAN_WROTE ... Calv Not offence but why dont you look on that site i posted which weapons are used We are payling in a more or less desert enviroment and always have long range engagements where et AI is got a better weapon than the M4 due it?s small caliber A MK12 is not a DMR rifle even with the mk262 ammo its hard to hit tangos over 600m because of the small caliber And Most of the time you don?t need a NVG sight I think on short ranges up to 1KM the Yardage is better than the vector dunno why^^ My understanding was that regular rifles were used for 0-300m, DMR for 300-600m and Sniper for 600+ Will consider swapping out the Mk12 for the DMR or M110.

Unless people are really against it, I'd like to leave the flashbangs in. The purpose being that standardising equipment i.e: 2xfrags, 2xsmoke,1xflash. allows an FTL to make decisions without having to first check that people in his team are carrying those items. That one slot doesn't exactly make a huge difference to what you can carry, you can still fill your ruck with whatever you want.

As much as I love the MK17s, including them would split the ammo types carried by a team. Also the M4A1 offers the NVRCO making it more versatile than the MK17. Same reason I've gone with USP for everyone. DM: M110 seems too long range for the role, planning on the MK12Mod0 with mk262 mags. Why the yardage over the vector? Just the weight difference or something else? Radio Operator: In all the missions I've played with VG, Lambs and other a radio op has always over-complicated things. The 148 covers about 4-5km depending on terrain so it enough for squad level comms. The 117 would be carried by whoever is leading the squad, or by an attached FAC if air assets are being employed. Grunt: I'll change the name to Rifleman/AT, grunt was just the first thing that came to mind. Map Tools: You just move them up the map a bit if they get in the way of the STHud. People should get into the habit of using them though, just being able to draw routes on the map for driving/patrolling is a huge benefit.

Going to post the various loadouts "roles" and what will be included in their kit in here. Throw any suggestions, issues etc in here and I'll bear them in mind. Roles: Commander FTL Rifleman/AT Medic Designated Marksman Grenadier Automatic Rifleman Light MG AT Specialist FAC Pilot Basic Items Included in all loadouts: NVG, Compass, Map, GPS, Keycuff, Gasmask, Watch, Map Tools, Ear Plugs, prc343, Safety Goggles IFAK - Bandage, Large Bandage, Tourniquet, Epi, Morphine Commander 26kg M4A1 - 6xmags, 1xtracer mag Frags x2 Smoke x2 Flashbang x1 USP Tactical - x2 mags PRC148 PRC117 Rangefinder FTL 18kg M4A1 - 6 mags, 1xtracer mag Frags x2 Smoke x2 Flashbang x1 USP Tactical - 2xmags PRC148 Rucksack Rangefinder Rifleman/AT 23kg M4A1 - 6xmags, 1xtracer mag Frags x2 Smoke x2 Flashbang x1 USP Tactical - 2xmags M136 CS/RS Rucksack Medic 23kg M4A1 - 6xmags, 1xtracer mag Frags x2 Smoke x2 Flashbang x1 USP Tactical - 2xmags Medical Rucksack - 5x: Bandage, Large Bandage, Morph, Epi, Medkit. 2x Tourniquet (Believe these are re-usable, feel free to correct me). Designated Marksman 15kg Mk12 Mod0 - 8x Stanag mk262 (Gone with this DMR due to possibility of ammo sharing with rest of team) Frags x2 Smoke x2 USP Tactical - 2xmags Yardage Rucksack Grenadier 18kg M4A1 M203 - 6xmags, 1xtracer mag, 3xHE, 1xSmoke Frags x2 Smoke x2 Flashbang x1 USP Tactical - x2 mags Rucksack Automatic Rifleman 27kg M27 IAR 7xBetaC mags (700rnds) Frags x2 Smoke x2 Flashbang x1 USP Tactical - x2 mags Rucksack Light MG 28kg M249 4xboxes (800rnds) Frags x2 Smoke x2 USP Tactical - x2 mags Rucksack AT Specialist 34kg M4A1 - 6xmags Frags x2 Smoke x1 USP Tactical - 2xmags MAAWS - 1xHEDP RuckSack - 1xHEDP, 1xHEAT FAC 30kg M4A1 - 7xmags Frags x2 Smoke x2 USP Tactical - 2xmags PRC117 Vector DAGR SOFLAM (In the editor this comes with battery pre-loaded, but in MSO it seemed to lack batter. Will leave battery out and see which way it goes). Pilot 32kg (14kg without chute) MP5 - 4xmags Smoke x2 Smoke Orange x2 IR Strobe x1 USP Tactical - 4xmags Chute PRC148 Equipment for each loadout will updated over the next hour or so as I go through them. The loadout in most cases will be "light", allowing people to tweak it with more frags/medical/ammo/etc as they like. Backpacks will be empty unless stated otherwise. Possible - PITN suggested having these roles as actual slots rather than loadouts. Discuss. Sniper Spotter

SavageCDN =VG= LAN_WROTE ... edit: forgot about loadouts.. yeah I have not touched those at all they do need some tweaking. If anyone wants to contribute please let me know. I'm also of the mind to scrap weapons boxes (just ammo and ordinance) and force players to use preset loadouts.. I too hate the crate :) I'm happy to re-do the loadouts, I tweaked them the first time around so understand the scripts so wouldn't take that long. Can do a seperate thread with what each loadout is going to have and get some feedback before sending you the finalised version. If that's alright?

Nvram =VG= LAN_WROTE ... You should talk to people who were in war the past 3-4 years.. or check MP.net... not just wikipedia... No-one is disputing that MGs have a role to play, the point being made is that within the scope of the MSO operations, the MG is only going to be more useful than a M249/M27 in a small number of situations and as such is more of a hindrance to have some carrying it. Usually teams are going to be moving via car so it makes more sense to have the MG and a sniper rifle packed in there for those specific situations when it is needed. There are of course exceptions to this, for example if we're fielding an a full infantry squad and moving via chopper than it would make sense to have someone carrying the MG, and in that situation I'd also like a 60mm mortar team with us too (though the ace mortar ammo boxes make it difficult to remain mobile, so they'd either have to setup close to the LZ, or carry the ammo boxes making them slow and vulnerable).

PITN LAN_WROTE ... Calv =VG= LAN_WROTE ... Grenadier - I assumed that anyone inside a team could take that role and just slap the M203 attachment on, but now I think about it I have a feeling the attachments are optics only, so yeah could do with that loadout adding. Assistant roles - AR/MG guys can carry 700-1000 rounds on their own, and their team can always pick up spare ammo manually, or load it into a vehicle if desired. AT Asst - Similar to above, if a team is taking the AT specialist, it's down to the FTL to get the grunt to swap his M136 for spare MAAWS rockets, or again load some in a vehicle. MG - Never really felt that it is worth the extra weight and all the downsides that brings. M27 is generally enough for basic suppressive fire with the M249 for when more is needed. May be worth chucking the M240 into the crate though in case a team desperately wants it. DM - Considered doing this loadout, couldn't decide on a rifle though. Was leaning towards the mk12 rather than the DMR though. Wasn't aware the DMR could be used with NV.. The assistants are just rifleman (grunts) carrying extra ammo for your heavy weapons like the LMG and LAT/HAT. This also fosters the battle buddy system (soldiers in pairs). You can't always run back to your truck/crate when shit hits the fan. I suggest this because I would like to ween you guys from the crate. Players waste too much time searching crates for gear as it is. A LRRP can last days with no access to support so a squad or platoon needs to be self suffecient so it can outlast a sustained engagement. The DMR is from ARMA 2 Vanilla and is NVG compatable and it actually requires more skill to use at range than the Mk17 SSR. Note: I just tested the ACE M14 DMR and it IS NOT nvg compatable. The only weapon that fits the DM role I see that has both is the M110 but the Attach script needs to add the NVG/non-NVG so it can switch. MG is considered a platoon attachment. For when you need that extra punch/range over the LMG. Not really needed though as everyone should be using similair weapons/ammo for consistancy. NOTE: I just noticed that the ammo crates I called using Logistics did not survive the restart aswell. Yeah, I agree about not having crates filled with too much stuff, was one of the main reasons I pushed for the loadouts adding. However, one crate with ammo, frags, smoke and other basic stuff is gonna be needed so people can tweak their loadout, so the assistant roles will be filled at that stage. I figured as much about the DMR, it is one of my favourite weapons, but I've due to the amount of time I seem to spend in close quarters I tend to go with the M27 now, has decent single shot accuracy at range, especially prone with the bipod. Good up close with full auto, and decent for suppressive fire, especially when carrying the 100rnd betac mags. Sounds like any items provided via the Logistics system get wiped then. So a FoB would likely remain if built with the items at base.

PITN LAN_WROTE ... Yes. Just checked my work and my walls are gone. ;( So no persistant bases atm. I was looking through the pre-defined weapons bag. -Add the Grenadier or make the FTL the grenadier. -Add Assistant Automatic Rifleman (grunt w/backpack of m249 ammo.) -Add Assitance Anti-Tank Rifleman (Extra MAAWS ammo) -Add Machine Gunner and Assistant MG. Heavy MG (.308 weapon like the Mk48 or M240) -Change Sniper to Designated Marksman. Change weapon to DMR since this will work with NVGs. If your going to have a Sniper/Spotter class then this should be a 2 man attachment team that can be assigned to the platoon. Pre-Defined kits with the tools they need but they should have free reign on the weapons platform. Maybe their own bag to pull from. Example, you have a 2 man engineer team attachment now just add a 2-man sniper/spotter team with ghullie suits to the mission.sqm. Grenadier - I assumed that anyone inside a team could take that role and just slap the M203 attachment on, but now I think about it I have a feeling the attachments are optics only, so yeah could do with that loadout adding. Assistant roles - AR/MG guys can carry 700-1000 rounds on their own, and their team can always pick up spare ammo manually, or load it into a vehicle if desired. AT Asst - Similar to above, if a team is taking the AT specialist, it's down to the FTL to get the grunt to swap his M136 for spare MAAWS rockets, or again load some in a vehicle. MG - Never really felt that it is worth the extra weight and all the downsides that brings. M27 is generally enough for basic suppressive fire with the M249 for when more is needed. May be worth chucking the M240 into the crate though in case a team desperately wants it. DM - Considered doing this loadout, couldn't decide on a rifle though. Was leaning towards the mk12 rather than the DMR though. Wasn't aware the DMR could be used with NV..

SavageCDN =VG= LAN_WROTE ... I'm not sure of a way to pre-pack containers using R3F logistics. Probably won't get a chance to look at the logistics side until next week (it's a lot of script work). We are going to test removing some of the logistics support stuff as it seems to kill the server FPS. What about attaching a script to one or two containers that when activated spawns various base objects in the general vicinity? As for the logistics system. I'd consider removing quite a bit of the stuff there, seems that a lot of it defeats the point of having a main base, looking after assets etc. Could be worth looking into whether it would be possible to limit the logistics system to only be usable by the Commander unit, have a feeling that could be complicated to do though. Something else you may want to look into is the ACRE re-transmit towers. 4th post in this thread: http://forums.unitedoperations.net/index.php/topic/11186-acre-retransmit-function/ explains how they work. Would be nice to be able to have radio contact with people back at base. Wouldn't need 100% coverage, but a couple dotted around so most towns are covered could work. Ideally we'd have to actually transport the towers from base and set them up, but that is likely a pain to setup, plus I think I read that the MSO guys are adding something like that in a future update.