After action report 26.01.13 MSO Session VG & Lambs

[=VG= SavageCDN (Inactive Duty)]

Calv LAN_WROTE ...


Startup time: Don't think assigned kits is necessary, far as I could see everyone was equipped and ready and just waiting to be given orders within 5-10mins. Issue seemed to be some tech/organisation stuff (which considering it was the first time and fairly last minute arrangement not that surprising), and waiting for everyone to get into the game. Obvious solution in future is just to send the teams out when they're ready. For example Fox1/2 were ready pretty quickly so could have gone ahead and done recon/clearance and called for support or pulled back when heavy resistance was met.

1st Person view: Lambs guys usually play mission on Veteran anyway which removes 3rd person altogether so wouldn't make much difference to us.

Sights: Probably more effort than it's worth editing each of the weapon crates to remove all the TWS etc. Much easier for the commander to just give the order to not use TWS weapons, and have the FTLs enforce it.

Wounded messages: While not exactly realistic, I would probably leave them on for the moment, if only to highlight friendly fire incidents.

Maybe we'll try another OP and see how it goes before worrying about loadouts (it's a lot of work)

We were playing on veteran yesterday we've just customized it to allow 3rd person (but no map markers, crosshairs, etc). Personally I'm a fan of 1st person on foot but I don't think it's a good idea on vehicles IMO only because Arma does a poor job of in-vehicle views (ie: hummer)

Weapons - not a lot of work actually we already have an ACE fill script that can be tailored and we can remove the magic boxes. We'll see what others think.

Death messages - I'll check I think there is a way to have only FF messages displayed (no more "Poffadder is heavily wounded again!!")

[=VG= SemlerPDX]

At one point there was a discussion about best altitudes to pull an MC-5 Rip Cord in a Parajump - a lot of numbers got thrown around, and of course, was a first time jump for many people. There is no exact "minimum" to pull the cord, it depends on your distance from the terrain, and the type of parachute, but it's certainly not 600m ASL.
One of the key factors that could have helped with a coordinated "pull time" on our altitude would have been that map's altitude above Sea Level as the Suunto Altimeter Watch reads out in Meters Above Sea Level, and not above terrain level.

Still, there were several casualties (perhaps from late pulls, and some from terrain and hills), but the sea level difference on that map, though notable, was not much, and a 300-400 meter pull time would have been sufficient if properly trained, or experienced.
Poffadder goes by sight and feel, and landed just fine (though he said once was to late).

Here is an example from my ACE Halo Training Mission on the map we were playing, at the same jump spot we used:

(PULLED CHUTE DIRECTLY AFTER THIS PIC - <10 Seconds in Chute - Good Landing)


You'll notice a bit of difference in the Above Sea Level and Above Terrain Level.

Here is the same scenario on Utes, an island nearly at Sea Level:

(PULLED CHUTE DIRECTLY BEFORE THIS PIC @ 200m ASL - <6 Seconds in Chute - Great Landing)

In both scenarios, the shortest time in the chute is achieved by pulling ones Rip Cord at an altitude of ~200 Meters Above Terrain Level, and to correct for Sea Level Differences, you could add 50-100 meters for safety. After 4 seconds of free-fall, terminal velocity is reached, and once the chute is deployed, if it's not open in ~3 seconds, you've got a serious problem. You will travel ~150 meters at terminal velocity waiting for your chute to deploy - take these things into account and you can become some kind of Spec Ops pro. Just know that the update speed on the ACE Altimeter is kinda slow, so feel it out...

Good games! We'll do just fine next time we jump!

[=VG= SemlerPDX]

P.S. used parachutes on the ground will not cause lag, or use up tons of server resources - but given that the proper procedure in ACE is to "interact" with your chute and re-pack it once you have landed, players might as well do it. This action creates a black parachute bag that is not flush with the ground, and you'd either have to hide them (in PvP) to make your insertion invisible, or deal with the open parachutes on the ground (which in all reality are flush with the ground, not as visible as a black backpack).

Still, I always instruct players to take the time, when appropriate so as not to hold up the group, to re-pack one's parachute after landing.
That being said, never feel that you must do so in order to assist the server in running fast - an object in the world is just that....an object is an object is an object - if you went by that notion, any FOB we build "causes lag" - it's untrue.

Eventually, a world could only hold so many objects, but that number is so high we don't have to worry about it. Technically, the "_dead_chute" is added to the FIFO cleanup in ACE, and it's limit is 99 - this means (first in first out) the 100th chute on the ground would make the 1st chute disappear.
No need to quote any crap about the dead chute not being added to the FIFO properly, and that mission makers should make their own little cleanup script...a cleanup script may use more "resources" than actually letting chutes litter the field.

Just FYI for those "not in the know".
!hi

[suomikeizari]

thanks for the info Sem :)

so whats the final verdict on Para use? shall we continue by poffader's way meaning sight and feel or..?
one possibility is to learn how to do proper para jumps with T-10s.

[=VG= Calv]

Castor =VG= LAN_WROTE ...

thanks for the info Sem :)

so whats the final verdict on Para use? shall we continue by poffader's way meaning sight and feel or..?
one possibility is to learn how to do proper para jumps with T-10s.

The problem seems to be that the Altimeter apparently switches between ASL and ATL depending on what map it is used on (Takistan/Zargabad = ATL, Chernarus = ASL), which would be ok but it doesn't actually state which is being used. So the only real solution is for everyone to practice on their own and gain the ability to judge the minimum height themselves.
It would also probably be a good idea for people to make it standard procedure to check the jump zone on the map during flight for the terrain height, and have the pilot report the flying altitude prior to jump. This would let people immediately figure out whether the altimeter is displaying ASL/ATL and if it is ASL knowing the terrain height from the map makes it easy to figure out when to open.

Problem with the T-10s is that they open immediately, so a drop from a decent altitude would just result in us spending several minutes floating down.

Easy way for people to practice parachuting:
Open editor and load whatever map you want to practice on.
Place a Blackhawk where you want to jump.
In the blackhawk properties box change In Formation to Flying.
Paste the following into the Init box: this setPos [getPos this select 0,getPos this select 1,1000]
Hit ok, then click Preview.

Should load with you sat in the pilot seat at 1000m ATL. Can check the HUD for ASL.
Open the map and goto Units, select yourself and Gear. Put the parachute on.
Jump.

[=VG= SemlerPDX]

Calv LAN_WROTE ...


The problem seems to be that the Altimeter apparently switches between ASL and ATL depending on what map it is used on (Takistan/Zargabad = ATL, Chernarus = ASL), which would be ok but it doesn't actually state which is being used.

OMG! Really? Isn't that just lovely.....

Well, gonna do what I said, and transform the VG Warmup Area (Zargabad) into a multi-training module area with automated and manual training courses for a variety of procedures, actions, and maneuvers. Will adapt something at some point for "earned certificates" so that people can "prove" themselves in a variety of roles (inspiration taken from our friends at L.A.M.B.S.). Perhaps this will develop more when we get more database systems and website connection to our missions, including something more advanced using the Squad XML system. Who knows?

First things first - I'm sure some people would love to throw themselves out of an aircraft over and over to try the above concepts out, and this ParaTraining script I wrote way back will do just fine once I polish it up for ACE. (attachment file coming soon.)
!coffee

[suomikeizari]

yes but a paradrop with T-10s is sure way to do it if we have a lot of new players, also if you drop us low in enough (500-300m) it wont take so long, unfortunately it sounds a bit dangerous.

EDIT, did a couple tests on MSO reeshman:

T-10 minimum safe jump elevation: 150m (guessed, actual jump was from 200m, took 20+ seconds to get down)
MC-5 minimum safe jump elevation: 600m

depending on the wind the usual distance from LZ is 100-50m. (T-10)
(depending what we are jumping from, test done from a stationary chopper)
when jumped from 400m with a T-10, time of flight was about 1min 20secs.

instead of HALO jumps I would suggest trying HAHO for its safety, depending on situation.
takes a long time to come down and if made above enemy territory the forces are suspectible to HMG/GPMG fire,
suggested time of execution is at night.

[=VG= Ingo]

a paradrop with a t-10 would mean a safe lz far away from our objective and we had a hot lz when we did this

[=VG= SemlerPDX]

!dash !wack !suicide

[=VG= Calv]

Castor =VG= LAN_WROTE ...

yes but a paradrop with T-10s is sure way to do it if we have a lot of new players, also if you drop us low in enough (500-300m) it wont take so long, unfortunately it sounds a bit dangerous.

EDIT, did a couple tests on MSO reeshman:

T-10 minimum safe jump elevation: 150m (guessed, actual jump was from 200m, took 20+ seconds to get down)
MC-5 minimum safe jump elevation: 600m

depending on the wind the usual distance from LZ is 100-50m.
(depending what we are jumping from, test done from a stationary chopper)
when jumped from 400m with a T-10, time of flight was about 1min 20secs.

instead of HALO jumps I would suggest trying HAHO for its safety, depending on situation.
takes a long time to come down and if made above enemy territory the forces are suspectible to HMG/GPMG fire,
suggested time of execution is at night.

But putting an entire helicopter at risk including everyone inside to fly that low isn't worth it.
And dropping high with T-10s is also more hassle than it's worth. Due to the time/risk it would force us to drop further from the AO increasing the time taken even further.

It's easy enough for everyone to just a couple jumps with the MC-5 to get used to the altimeter and when to open. It's a skill just like learning how to aim a weapon, how to use the radios, medic equipment. They all take a bit of practise but are easy enough once you get used to it.

[suomikeizari]

I was just providing the numbers I got while testing,
its up to you how you want to read it.

Better safe than sorry.

[=VG= SemlerPDX]

Spending that much time in the chute is not safe, it's suicide.
Listen to what Calv said, it is good advice. People are trying to help, not contest.

Here is the PJ Test with an MC-5. The goal is to land within a certain distance from the target (white X, red smoke) while spending as little time as possible in the chute.
HALO - High Altitude Low Opening
Walk up to the helicopter and on the mouse wheel Action Menu, select PJ Test - you will jump at 10,000 feet, and if you cannot see the ground, change view distance settings with the mouse wheel Action Menu "Settings".

As I stated above, there is no one number for a correct Pull Time - you'll have to train. Around 200 meters from the ground will work if you get the feel for it. 600 meters above sea level on reshman is rediculously high, as I wrote above and the time spent in the chute is far from acceptable.
Proof is in the pudding - see the pics, try the HALO Training Mission here and prove me wrong....


demoae.parajumptest.utes.rar

[suomikeizari]

I disagree with you both,
also I'm wondering why do you make such a hassle over this and not for example how fast we pull security,
respond to contact, or touch enemy corpses/use their equipment without proper need for it?

enough derailing the topic, PM me if you want to know how I disagree.

[=VG= Nvram]

Can we please get nightops the next time? :>

Something like Neptune spear would be great fly in kill HVT fly out and in less than 2h:D

[=VG= Calv]

Castor =VG= LAN_WROTE ...

I disagree with you both,
also I'm wondering why do you make such a hassle over this and not for example how fast we pull security,
respond to contact, or touch enemy corpses/use their equipment without proper need for it?

enough derailing the topic, PM me if you want to know how I disagree.

Well, it's certainly your right to choose to be incorrect.

And we're making a "hassle" over it because it was relevant to the last op. There was clearly confusion on the general usage and procedure so we offered information to clear this up and allow for some practice to be done by people who feel they need it so next time there will be no problems.
The only person being disagreeable and causing a fuss about it is you.

As for the other stuff, they haven't been mentioned because they weren't raised as problems during the mission. And in honesty those things are down to FTLs to sort out with their teams, everyone knows how they should be done, it's just a matter of FTLs sorting it out. So no discussion is needed.
Not sure what you mean by touching enemy corpses, but it should be standard procedure for every team to confirm every kill by using the interact key on enemy corpses.

[suomikeizari]

alright then, in any case we seem to agree at least on one point: its best for you to get your own feel when doing parajumps.

[Mathisen]

Helmet cam. Nixxen PoV - Fox1.

Now with 500% more premission shenanigans.

[Jager]

Awesume!

[whiztler]

Excellent vid Nixxen

[=VG= Eclipse002]

L.A.M.B.S. rock.
Wish i was as good as you guys.

[Random]

One day maybe.......i dunno though :P

[=VG= Calv]

I always start worrying when I realise someone in my team was recording, due to my tendency to take the piss out of the other teams and command. :D

PS. Parking in the highly flammable gas station when taking fire = best. idea. ever. ;)

[=VG= SavageCDN (Inactive Duty)]

Great vid thanks for posting it up

[=VG= Ingo]

nice vid nixxen

[=VG= Nvram]

Nice :)


Btw: Your off voice is a bit low sometimes