Arma 2 ACE Multi-Session Operations thread

[=VG= Ingo]

pitn what server were you on testing it the database one?

[PITN]

Yes. Just checked my work and my walls are gone. ;( So no persistant bases atm.

I was looking through the pre-defined weapons bag.
-Add the Grenadier or make the FTL the grenadier.
-Add Assistant Automatic Rifleman (grunt w/backpack of m249 ammo.)
-Add Assitance Anti-Tank Rifleman (Extra MAAWS ammo)
-Add Machine Gunner and Assistant MG. Heavy MG (.308 weapon like the Mk48 or M240)
-Change Sniper to Designated Marksman. Change weapon to DMR since this will work with NVGs.

If your going to have a Sniper/Spotter class then this should be a 2 man attachment team that can be assigned to the platoon. Pre-Defined kits with the tools they need but they should have free reign on the weapons platform. Maybe their own bag to pull from. Example, you have a 2 man engineer team attachment now just add a 2-man sniper/spotter team with ghullie suits to the mission.sqm.


EDIT:
I flew around and all of my bases that I used the logistic module to spawn defenses are gone. However, all vehicles that i spawned using Logistics Airlift (aircraft/MTVRs) are still there. So the database seems to be recording some items.

[=VG= Calv]

PITN LAN_WROTE ...

Yes. Just checked my work and my walls are gone. ;( So no persistant bases atm.

I was looking through the pre-defined weapons bag.
-Add the Grenadier or make the FTL the grenadier.
-Add Assistant Automatic Rifleman (grunt w/backpack of m249 ammo.)
-Add Assitance Anti-Tank Rifleman (Extra MAAWS ammo)
-Add Machine Gunner and Assistant MG. Heavy MG (.308 weapon like the Mk48 or M240)
-Change Sniper to Designated Marksman. Change weapon to DMR since this will work with NVGs.

If your going to have a Sniper/Spotter class then this should be a 2 man attachment team that can be assigned to the platoon. Pre-Defined kits with the tools they need but they should have free reign on the weapons platform. Maybe their own bag to pull from. Example, you have a 2 man engineer team attachment now just add a 2-man sniper/spotter team with ghullie suits to the mission.sqm.

Grenadier - I assumed that anyone inside a team could take that role and just slap the M203 attachment on, but now I think about it I have a feeling the attachments are optics only, so yeah could do with that loadout adding.
Assistant roles - AR/MG guys can carry 700-1000 rounds on their own, and their team can always pick up spare ammo manually, or load it into a vehicle if desired.
AT Asst - Similar to above, if a team is taking the AT specialist, it's down to the FTL to get the grunt to swap his M136 for spare MAAWS rockets, or again load some in a vehicle.
MG - Never really felt that it is worth the extra weight and all the downsides that brings. M27 is generally enough for basic suppressive fire with the M249 for when more is needed. May be worth chucking the M240 into the crate though in case a team desperately wants it.
DM - Considered doing this loadout, couldn't decide on a rifle though. Was leaning towards the mk12 rather than the DMR though. Wasn't aware the DMR could be used with NV..

[PITN]

Calv =VG= LAN_WROTE ...


Grenadier - I assumed that anyone inside a team could take that role and just slap the M203 attachment on, but now I think about it I have a feeling the attachments are optics only, so yeah could do with that loadout adding.
Assistant roles - AR/MG guys can carry 700-1000 rounds on their own, and their team can always pick up spare ammo manually, or load it into a vehicle if desired.
AT Asst - Similar to above, if a team is taking the AT specialist, it's down to the FTL to get the grunt to swap his M136 for spare MAAWS rockets, or again load some in a vehicle.
MG - Never really felt that it is worth the extra weight and all the downsides that brings. M27 is generally enough for basic suppressive fire with the M249 for when more is needed. May be worth chucking the M240 into the crate though in case a team desperately wants it.
DM - Considered doing this loadout, couldn't decide on a rifle though. Was leaning towards the mk12 rather than the DMR though. Wasn't aware the DMR could be used with NV..

The assistants are just rifleman (grunts) carrying extra ammo for your heavy weapons like the LMG and LAT/HAT. This also fosters the battle buddy system (soldiers in pairs). You can't always run back to your truck/crate when shit hits the fan. I suggest this because I would like to ween you guys from the crate. Players waste too much time searching crates for gear as it is. A LRRP can last days with no access to support so a squad or platoon needs to be self suffecient so it can outlast a sustained engagement.

The DMR is from ARMA 2 Vanilla and is NVG compatable and it actually requires more skill to use at range than the Mk17 SSR.
Note: I just tested the ACE M14 DMR and it IS NOT nvg compatable. The only weapon that fits the DM role I see that has both is the M110 but the Attach script needs to add the NVG/non-NVG so it can switch.

MG is considered a platoon attachment. For when you need that extra punch/range over the LMG. Not really needed though as everyone should be using similair weapons/ammo for consistancy.

NOTE:
I just noticed that the ammo crates I called using Logistics did not survive the restart aswell.

[=VG= SemlerPDX]

Nvram =VG= LAN_WROTE ...

NV - all the fobs were still there just no map markers
^^ then we should add the FOB Location to the channel description in TS so everyone knows where it is?

Just use After Action Reports....

[=VG= Calv]

PITN LAN_WROTE ...

Calv =VG= LAN_WROTE ...


Grenadier - I assumed that anyone inside a team could take that role and just slap the M203 attachment on, but now I think about it I have a feeling the attachments are optics only, so yeah could do with that loadout adding.
Assistant roles - AR/MG guys can carry 700-1000 rounds on their own, and their team can always pick up spare ammo manually, or load it into a vehicle if desired.
AT Asst - Similar to above, if a team is taking the AT specialist, it's down to the FTL to get the grunt to swap his M136 for spare MAAWS rockets, or again load some in a vehicle.
MG - Never really felt that it is worth the extra weight and all the downsides that brings. M27 is generally enough for basic suppressive fire with the M249 for when more is needed. May be worth chucking the M240 into the crate though in case a team desperately wants it.
DM - Considered doing this loadout, couldn't decide on a rifle though. Was leaning towards the mk12 rather than the DMR though. Wasn't aware the DMR could be used with NV..

The assistants are just rifleman (grunts) carrying extra ammo for your heavy weapons like the LMG and LAT/HAT. This also fosters the battle buddy system (soldiers in pairs). You can't always run back to your truck/crate when shit hits the fan. I suggest this because I would like to ween you guys from the crate. Players waste too much time searching crates for gear as it is. A LRRP can last days with no access to support so a squad or platoon needs to be self suffecient so it can outlast a sustained engagement.

The DMR is from ARMA 2 Vanilla and is NVG compatable and it actually requires more skill to use at range than the Mk17 SSR.
Note: I just tested the ACE M14 DMR and it IS NOT nvg compatable. The only weapon that fits the DM role I see that has both is the M110 but the Attach script needs to add the NVG/non-NVG so it can switch.

MG is considered a platoon attachment. For when you need that extra punch/range over the LMG. Not really needed though as everyone should be using similair weapons/ammo for consistancy.

NOTE:
I just noticed that the ammo crates I called using Logistics did not survive the restart aswell.

Yeah, I agree about not having crates filled with too much stuff, was one of the main reasons I pushed for the loadouts adding. However, one crate with ammo, frags, smoke and other basic stuff is gonna be needed so people can tweak their loadout, so the assistant roles will be filled at that stage.

I figured as much about the DMR, it is one of my favourite weapons, but I've due to the amount of time I seem to spend in close quarters I tend to go with the M27 now, has decent single shot accuracy at range, especially prone with the bipod. Good up close with full auto, and decent for suppressive fire, especially when carrying the 100rnd betac mags.

Sounds like any items provided via the Logistics system get wiped then. So a FoB would likely remain if built with the items at base.

[PITN]

Calv =VG= LAN_WROTE ...

Sounds like any items provided via the Logistics system get wiped then. So a FoB would likely remain if built with the items at base.

What I was pointing out was that the database was recording the vehicles spawned via logistics and not everything else. So how does the database remember the vehicles? Can that be implemented for the other items like walls and crates?

Also I was looking for a PDW for the pilots and the smallest one with decent punch was the KAC PDW. My second choice was the 516 with 10 inch barrel. HK516-D10RS. Whats nice about the 516 is that is uses STANAG ammo and not special stuff. Good luck surviving with just a pistol though. LOL

As for the Designated Marksman I recommend the M110 variants for now.
M110, M110 NV Scope, and M110 SD. Just leave out the TWS.

[=VG= Nvram]

For the M110 the M110 AN/pvs10 and the silenced are needed no need for the third variant
Or maybe let each DMR decide which weapon to take i personally prefer the HK417 with Leupold scope over the M14, mk17 and M110(except night or silenced ops)

But maybe we should add a real "Sniper " role with something like a Tac 50 or M107 for it?s really long range capabilitys ( did some 2000m+ Kills few days ago with it)

[AKM]

PDW for pilots ? What's wrong with M4A1 or MP5 ? IRL pilots use them.

Real "sniper" ? Since AI don't care about camos or ghilies just pack M107 in the back of MRAP and switch to it when you really need it. Rest of the time you can 'work' as part of the fireteam. That's all. Same for M240 or heavy AT, for example.

[Jager]

AKM LAN_WROTE ...

Real "sniper" ? Since AI don't care about camos or ghilies just pack M107 in the back of MRAP and switch to it when you really need it. Rest of the time you can 'work' as part of the fireteam. That's all. Same for M240 or heavy AT, for example.

Agreed, we've done some pretty successful recon missions in that manner.
We carried our most basic gear needed ( prim / sec weapons, mags, meds gear, other gear ) then a ruck with a lot more, easy enough to remove if one needs speed.
If we need something to take out a special target its in the truck, that however requires one to keep your vehicle safe and not put it in harms way.

[PITN]

Jager LAN_WROTE ...

AKM LAN_WROTE ...

Real "sniper" ? Since AI don't care about camos or ghilies just pack M107 in the back of MRAP and switch to it when you really need it. Rest of the time you can 'work' as part of the fireteam. That's all. Same for M240 or heavy AT, for example.

Agreed, we've done some pretty successful recon missions in that manner.
We carried our most basic gear needed ( prim / sec weapons, mags, meds gear, other gear ) then a ruck with a lot more, easy enough to remove if one needs speed.
If we need something to take out a special target its in the truck, that however requires one to keep your vehicle safe and not put it in harms way.

The pilot SMG was just to give them a fighting chance. An m4 would work fine. I just thought it would be kewl with a mp7 or a SBR (short barreled rifle).

The sniper idea I was a little more seriuos about. A marksman is a squad level asset and should be engaging targets up to 800m. A sniper is a platoon/company asset and should be engaging targets up to 1.5km and run autonamously. Being a Sniper/Spotter also requires certain skills and teamwork. Anyone can grab a M107 and start laying down fire but that's not a snipers role. Frankly it is a very boring job but the most crucial. A grunt thats just popping off rounds is hindering more than helping. Just think of the Sniper as an attachment to the platoon. It's there if you need that role to be filled.

The same goes for the Heavy MG role. Some people believe that is serves no purpose. It serves a very specific purpose in fact. A MG is a HEAVY support fire tool. An AR/LMG is for volumn support fire. They both have there uses. I just did some testing in the editor. I destroyed an enemy SPG9 truck with just under one mag of ammo from the M249 (200rd) and M240 (100rd). The M240 does this in half the time of the M249. The IAR took 120+ rounds of ammo (2-4 reloads) to turn it black but not on fire. So you can see MG>LMG>IAR. It is up to the platoon/squad leader to designate which tools to implement to complete the mission.

You can even take it a step further. Where the HAT is an attachment team to a platoon where the LAT is more of a squad role.

[=VG= Nvram]

BTW the M240/mk48 has also a lot longer range than the M249/or oher 556 toy guns...
There is a reason almost every army is going back to 762mm rifles...

[AKM]

Nvram =VG= LAN_WROTE ...

There is a reason almost every army is going back to 762mm rifles...

... meanwhile every NATO army still using 5.56 as main small arms round.


I'm just saying its easier to pack heavy stuff in transport. Light and mobile fireteam will be more useful for any task on MSO.

[=VG= Nvram]

You should talk to people who were in war the past 3-4 years.. or check MP.net... not just wikipedia...

[AKM]

Oh... No one is going back to 7.62 nato rifles. All this rifles now in really limited use only because of A-stan landscape and hadji 7.62x54 weapons. If you don't know 7.62 nato never replace 5.56 because of weight. You can check MP.net too and count ratio of 5.56 and 7.62 nato weapons on photos. You will be surprised. Also, the only toy here is your airsoft gun.

[=VG= Calv]

Nvram =VG= LAN_WROTE ...

You should talk to people who were in war the past 3-4 years.. or check MP.net... not just wikipedia...

No-one is disputing that MGs have a role to play, the point being made is that within the scope of the MSO operations, the MG is only going to be more useful than a M249/M27 in a small number of situations and as such is more of a hindrance to have some carrying it. Usually teams are going to be moving via car so it makes more sense to have the MG and a sniper rifle packed in there for those specific situations when it is needed.

There are of course exceptions to this, for example if we're fielding an a full infantry squad and moving via chopper than it would make sense to have someone carrying the MG, and in that situation I'd also like a 60mm mortar team with us too (though the ace mortar ammo boxes make it difficult to remain mobile, so they'd either have to setup close to the LZ, or carry the ammo boxes making them slow and vulnerable).

[PITN]

5.56 = Firepower = Assault Rifle = A shit load of bullets heading your way.

7.62 = Heavy firepower = Battle Rifle = Reach out and touch someone with the hand of death.

Look up Assault rifle vs. Battle Rifle. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_rifle

[=VG= SavageCDN (Inactive Duty)]

PITN LAN_WROTE ...

I'm not sure what you're trying to accomplish here. There needs to ba a balance between reality and fantasy. Some of us can"t spend and hour driving to the AO, pick a fight, and then drive back to get more bullets. Having only one base is a huge logistics issue and makes your LOC (line of communication) too long. It prevents you from maintaining an engagement and reduces battlefield tempo. Having smaller bases (FO's and OP's) placed between poulation centers help maintain contact with the populace and allow you to project your power quickly.

Oh I agree but having those bases 'in a box' that can be quickly setup is not the idea (IMO) and is beyond my ability to do. Adding some kind of script attached to a box that spawns in defenses is possible but again those items will not be saved by the DB automatically and would require a lot of work and testing to have that functional. Our other option is the COIN interface which is on the MHQ currently (I think?). Not sure if stuff spawned in via COIN will persist either though... we would need to test.

IMO what really should be happening is players should be taking supplies with them in vehicles or having pilots fly in supplies. Choose a FUP and leave the transport vehicles/supplies there and then move into your AO.. making re-arming a short hop.

When I logged into the Dev server yesterday I restarted it and checked that the bases were still there which they were. I don't know which items where delivered via logistics and which ones transported by players but there were definitely vehicles and walls at the FOBs.

To be honest we might just scrap the entire logistics system (the one called in via radio) if it causes issues like this and instead force players to haul stuff with trucks (after adjusting the R3F logistics params to allow for more items in containers, for example... this will get done next week). We'll see what everyone thinks.


edit: forgot about loadouts.. yeah I have not touched those at all they do need some tweaking. If anyone wants to contribute please let me know. I'm also of the mind to scrap weapons boxes (just ammo and ordinance) and force players to use preset loadouts.. I too hate the crate :)

[=VG= SavageCDN (Inactive Duty)]

Here's what I envision for a typical MSO 'mission'.. this is only my view and feel free to disagree or post your own vision. These things also depend on player numbers.. obviously if there are 3 players on the server they won't be clearing towns easily and perhaps have to settle for some recon tasks or logistics


Mission starts.
Day 1 - Spent doing ground recon of nearby towns and potential enemy strongpoints.

Day 2 - Towns within a few kilometers are cleared systematically and claimed by BLUFOR.

Day 3 - Recon potential FOB locations and plan logistics, maybe do a Patrol OP. Pack trucks in prepartation.

Day 4 - Lead elements secure FOB location and radio for logistics.. trucks get escorted... chopper drops containers, etc. FOB is deployed with one person designated as Lead Boss Guy for that FOB (otherwise we get too many cooks)

Day 5 - Towns within range of FOB are cleared and secured.. do another Patrol OP.

and so on....


Then we wipe the database and try something completely different !yes

[=VG= Calv]

SavageCDN =VG= LAN_WROTE ...

edit: forgot about loadouts.. yeah I have not touched those at all they do need some tweaking. If anyone wants to contribute please let me know. I'm also of the mind to scrap weapons boxes (just ammo and ordinance) and force players to use preset loadouts.. I too hate the crate :)

I'm happy to re-do the loadouts, I tweaked them the first time around so understand the scripts so wouldn't take that long. Can do a seperate thread with what each loadout is going to have and get some feedback before sending you the finalised version.

If that's alright?

[=VG= SavageCDN (Inactive Duty)]

Hell yeah!!!

[=VG= Ingo]

well one way to go would be without the loadout thing since a lot of people have their own "custom" loadout and get most of their stuff from the box anyway (and forcing people to use preset things will just result in angry people) like some carry extra medic supplies and others just carry lots of grenades or remove all the "crap" the loadout thing gives you and just keep the rifle, backpack, a few medical supplies and some ammo and let the people customize it and add the stuff they want from the crate.

[Jager]

Well define a lot of people, have a poll about it.
Then you can easier decide if to go forwards or backwards.

I normally go with either FTL loadout or a regular grunt, swap to a weapon with 203 then add a sight to it, add more meds to backpack and I'm good to go.
The entire process from spawn takes me less than a minute unless mgo attach is being silly.

But while it makes sense in larger scale for every grunt to use the same caliber, when people are just playing with low numbers it's serves less purpose.

Or decide on what one needs in a basic loadout so it serves a purpose for those that dislike the system.

[=VG= Gaz]

My point here is, the loadout, I used the M4 from the loadout, everything else was thrown. Backpack was a 0.5KG heavier than it has to be, No medical supplies really, Some random crap in the backpack like IR strobes and smokes.. The only thing i need from the kit was the M4 ironsights it gave me. Other than that i spent all my time getting rid of everything it gave me, then re-established my kit from bottom up once again, a process that usually takes me about 1:30 to about 3-4 minutes of confusion and fustration..

The point is, why give me the backpack if it dosnt have any medical supplies, It weighs 0.5 more than it should, is packed full of basically useless stuff.. I could just stop grab some hand grenades, if it as a night op, some IR strobes and i'd be good... theres no need to add all the filler stuff that can be done by anyone in 30 seconds.. it just makes it that much longer...

[=VG= SavageCDN (Inactive Duty)]

As mentioned those loadouts do need to be tweaked they are obviously not what we are going to stick with.

Really I'm close to just preset loadouts and a few ammo/ordinance/launcher crates to adjust the default. If people get angry cause they can't use their M249 TWS then perhaps this kind of mission is not for them....