Americans Act Now! Your Net Neutrality is Under Fire Again!!

[=VG= SemlerPDX]

 

Our Internet Freedom is Under Attack (again)!!

 

NET NEUTRALITY:  ACT NOW OR THEY WILL WIN!
"The internet is a utility, like water or electricity." -TB  The water company has no right to charge you more or less depending on what you use water for.  It has no right to prioritize water accessibility to companies over residences, and therefore it is a fair utility system.

Congress wants to abolish this level of fairness on the internet.  They have created a deliberately misleading name for their newest Act aimed at destroying the fairness and freedom of the internet.

The "Restoring Internet Freedom Act" will do just the opposite of what it's name implies - it will remove the internet freedom we now enjoy.  It will allow internet service providers such as Comcast to throttle your residential internet speed in favor of companies and advertisers who pay more to have priority access to the same internet lines.

By selling the "fast lanes of traffic" to companies, you will be subjugated to much slower lanes of internet traffic, and will notice a clear decrease in your internet speed.  When we talk about online gaming, this means you will have a massive increase in Latency which is the primary cause of "lag" - noticed in game when you dive behind a solid wall to avoid getting shot, only to get riddled with bullets anyway because you were not behind the wall when you though you were (you arrived later, based on your internet latency).  Any increase in this latency and we will be going backwards in time with regards to the improvements we've seen in online gaming over the past 10+ years here in America.

ACT NOW!!
If you live in the United States, you must act now to help protect Net Neutrality and our internet freedoms.  Thousands of Comcast bots have reportedly pushed the United States Congress to believe that consumers WANT a throttled internet that favors Companies, Corporations, and Advertisers over residential consumers (all of us).  Using these duplicitous means, Comcast and others have twisted the facts and impressed opinions upon our Government that do not represent the true opinions and values of the American public.

SAVE THE WHALES! (so we can torture and murder them for reality tv?)
Using a name for their act such as, "Restore Internet Freedom", is the lowest form of deception!  It is like to forcing Apple loving people to take Oranges out of a bag labeled "Bag of Apples". No one should be stupid enough to fall for such childish tactics, but the supporters of this Act do not give the American public much credit at all.  The Restore Internet Freedom Act will remove the freedom you now enjoy on the internet - you currently enjoy the same rights and speeds and priorities of everyone else on the internet, including businesses, schools, and government facilities.  If this Act passes, you will LOSE your internet freedom and the power will shift to companies and organizations who can afford to pay for priority traffic and speed.

FREE TO PAY!
If the incorrectly named "Restore Internet Freedom Act" passes, you will only gain the freedom to pay more for the same speed you currently enjoy as these Internet Service Providers restructure their subscriber agreements into two clearly defined speed groups where the residential customer (us) has no option to pay (even if they were able to) at the same level as a commercial customer and can never afford the same priority traffic lanes on the internet.  Right now, you notice nothing because the packets of info you send through the internet to access a website, or play a game online, travel alongside everyone else's packets at the speed of the lines inbetween.  If this Act passes, your packets will get passed as well - they may be pushed to the side to allow for more "important" packets to move along internet lines.  This is irrespective of any necessity; your packets could arrive too late causing problems (for gaming, this is Lag) and to minimize this you will be encouraged to pay your ISP for a higher level of access.  In the end, though, you will not be able to pay for the level of access commercial customers enjoy, you will always have a tier over you that has priority access.  

What is this priority access speed like?  EXACTLY WHAT YOU HAVE NOW!  And what you have NOW will be GONE if the Restore Internet Freedom Act passes -- you will have the speed you remember from years ago; you will have inconsistent speeds and irregular latency -- a horrible step backwards in internet connectivity for all of us.

 

What should I do?

 

AMERICANS: DO THIS FOR YOURSELF NOW - RIGHT NOW - THIS MINUTE!
(I did it - it takes just a few minutes to do)

Go here to join the petition and protest the removal of Net Neutrality rules: https://www.battleforthenet.com/july12/

Go to this website to send a message to the FCC:   https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2017/07/net-neutrality-allies-send-16-million-comments-fcc     ( https://dearfcc.org/ )

Go to this website and scroll ALL THE WAY to the bottom, just above the footer is this: ( https://netneutrality.internetassociation.org/action/ )
(I've linked this pic to the "Let's Go" button, just click the pic & follow the instructions on the pic to send a comment directly to the FCC)

( Mashable article )

“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” - Edmund Burke

 

The video game industry revenues in 2016 for the United States were estimated at $23.5 billion.  This industry is driven by the residential consumers who use the internet to access content and interact with others through online gaming and other services available only over the internet.

Currently, the largest limiting factor for successful online gaming is the latency of a persons internet connection to that online game at any given second.  Often measured in milliseconds, this delay of information packets arriving at their destination has steadily gone down thanks to new technological developments and internet infrastructure upgrades over the years.

By abolishing the Net Neutrality that Americans now enjoy, ISP's will have the ability to de-prioritize residential consumer internet traffic, favoring commercial consumers and therefore limiting the ability of the residential consumer to interact in the same way on the internet. This will directly impact the latency of residential customers as their internet traffic is subject to slower lanes thereby decreasing the quality of their internet experience, and could directly influence their decision to purchase or support any online gaming industry products.  Online services currently enjoy success derived from the ease and speed with which consumers can access their services, and if an ISP can limit that speed favoring other customers, popularity and revenues from such services may decline significantly.

An industry that counts on taking advantage of the latest technological developments or the newly available internet standards in America will suffer from the inability to cater to the needs of their consumer base, namely the online video game player.  Popularity in general could drop due to the unreliability that a lack of Title II Net Neutrality rules could pose to an online game player's internet connection in an online game or internet service.

Check out this video by The Cynical Brit himself, TotalBiscuit:

 

For these reasons and more, it is of great importance for America to keep the internet an equal place for everyone.  We must fight to keep Title II Net Neutrality rules in place!

[Xenalite]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Anarcho_Capitalism/comments/2x9i6c/fcc_votes_to_ruin_the_internet/coyi44a/

[=VG= Gaz]

It is also worth noting, this act isnt just intended to throttle your speed. It provides complete control to the ISP over the lines they provide. They dont like Amazon because they wont pay them money? No more amazon from your ISP! They are arguing with Ebay? Throttle Ebays speeds to unsuable levels!

[=VG= SemlerPDX]

On 7/13/2017 at 0:14 AM, Xenalite said:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Anarcho_Capitalism/comments/2x9i6c/fcc_votes_to_ruin_the_internet/coyi44a/

Not sure that metering a connection for the purpose of charging an appropriate fee for the rate of usage is the same thing as what they have in mind with metering and throttling traffic in the Restore Internet Freedom Act.  The most important difference being that businesses, schools, and government facilities are all on equal speed lanes of traffic and there is no prioritization model governing that traffic at this time; this Act will change the current internet landscape far more than just giving the ISP's more power over charging businesses for internet connection and data transfer usages.  It goes against the very concept of internet freedom as it is today.

Again, going by the water utility analogy, obviously the Fire Department may use more water than a residential customer, and therefore it's right that their usage is logged so an appropriate fee can be charged.  It's also very important that they have access to water for emergencies BUT... they do not have a switch to turn off or limit all the rest of the water customers (residential users) so that the Fire Department has all the water they need, and everyone else come second (possibly losing water pressure in their homes).  It is all still equal and all have the same freedom to use water for whatever they wish without any oversight.  There is no one deciding that because the Water Park pays more money, they will have priority access over the rest of the people on the same infrastructure.

Should the Water Company directly go after the makers of the Slip N Slide because their product causes an inordinate use of their service and taxes their infrastructure?

Because of services like Neflix, many people purchase a home internet connection.  This alone should compensate the companies who maintain that infrastructure.  I could check my email on my phone, but I'd be pushing to get my internet installed at a new home quickly for my Netflix, for sure!  Many more people have high-speed home internet connection subscriptions now due to the popularity of websites such as Netflix, YouTube, Twitch, Hulu, Amazon, and so many more.  Of course, because of Neflix, Hulu, and Amazon Video, I shut off my cable TV from the same company, so I guess they are losing money.  Would make sense for them to raise my internet bill each month, but that's the limit of the control they should have over my use of the service I pay them for.
 

Thoughts?

[Xenalite]

Connection to the Internet is a commodity, like nearly everything else. Someone owns the network, the physical devices and has to maintain, monitor, repair and improve it.

It costs money and somebody has to pay for it. If one entity is responsible for 70% of your costs, and another 30%, but you are by law required to charge them 50/50, then it's not right. The 70% party is getting a bargain, while 30% party is getting ripped off. An ISP charging different parties different rates for cost reasons is the maximum of fairness. An ISP charging you out of spite is likely to be a non-event.

They are a business and they want more customers. The more people like to watch high quality Netflix, the more customers sign up with them for broadband.

Of course it goes the other way as well. If Netflix did pay more, and got better traffic for their service, then an ISP could sell tailored-performance packages for gaming, streaming, business etc. Alas, my traffic is equal, so I get average everything.

Indeed, your last example shows basic supply & demand economics. If more people cancel TV, the demand drops down fast, while supply is slow to drop. Prices fall down.

If more people sign up for online streaming and consume your broadband traffic, the demand rises quickly, while supply is almost constant. Prices rise.

The only way out of prices rising continuously, and from content providers getting charged whatever ISPs demand, is competition. The more ISPs you have competing customers, the less monopolies you have.

I use this fact every year, when I call my ISP to renew the contract and I say "Give me newcommers price or I will go with your prime competitor". And it works every time.

Your Slip N Slide situation is not analogous to this situation, as they are not the ones selling you the water. And the water park should get precedence if the contract they signed says "if you pay more you'll get more".

[=VG= Gaz]

I understand what your saying Xenalite, but thats only one possible outcome. The other posibility is they get a system that allows them to earn more money. And abuse it exponentially for crazy monitary gains.. which one is more likely? Fact is its handing the keys to the internet over to a company. You are handing the keys to one of the things we all love the most, to a "Money maker" that is literally what is happening, and if you think that will benifit you in a positive manner.. well thats just crazy in my opinion. There is very little to no companies around anymore that wouldn't screw you for some extra $$$$$$ hell even game companies are tragic for it now, there is no way you say to them "You could make untold amounts of money being greedy.." and they all just dont.

 

Also, peering agreements are metered anyway most of the time.. So the argument you've given for it dosent have as much as a solid foundation as you'd assume.

[=VG= SemlerPDX]

On 7/14/2017 at 10:55 AM, Xenalite said:

Your Slip N Slide situation is not analogous to this situation, as they are not the ones selling you the water. And the water park should get precedence if the contract they signed says "if you pay more you'll get more".

No, not completely, though I will admit it is a bit of a stretch.  The Slip N Slide is Netflix, a company or third party product that relies solely on the infrastructure created by the owners of the infrastructure, and puts a larger than standard usage on that infrastructure.  The supply does not meet the demand, and this is the situation they see - this Act is not targeted at the peering agreements so much as it is aimed at sectioning off the very traffic itself in order to make more money off of the new "smaller pieces of pie" they have in mind.  The Netflix Data Server Farms already pay their internet bill, if it's not enough, raise the damn bill.  I already pay MY internet bill to allow me to USE the Netflix, if it's not enough, raise my damn bill.  That is where the "fees" need to stop.  These ISP's have no right to make the money coming, going, and also in-between.

While most every other developed country connects to the world wide web the same way as every other individual connection, further division of the traffic on the infrastructure into fast and slow lanes will only benefit the company who owns the infrastructure, and other rich companies that can afford to take priority on the internet over the small guy, perhaps a start up small business for example.

This is outright un-American.  Allowing those companies more fortunate than others to monopolize the "real" speed of the internet puts them at an unfair advantage over companies that may be just starting or having a difficult period of growth.

[Jersans]

I heard about this. Did some reading up and yes, that's pretty messed up but don't you have competitive ISP's meaning one can advertise on not adhering?

Free market and all?

Either way as a European I have a bad feeling that you guys are going to get a lot of crap you don't deserve in the current circumstances. No offense but we have universal healthcare for decades. It ain't cheap but it seems like the right most moral thing to do. Apparently you guys are arguing about repealing the closest thing to universal healthcare and now this. 

As a smuck European I wonder why the strongest, seemingly greatest country in the world can be so backwards on so many basic issues.  I'm far from 'leftist' but your 'right-wing' seems awkward and foolish to me. Kinda really backwards to be honest. I'm no socialist but I know that the more you fuck over the common people the quicker your society will break. 

I will plainly and always fail to understand how you can fuck people over and give them guns at the same time and think it will work out. 

Fuck with their internet. Fuck with their healthcare. Fuck with their sustainable jobs. Fuck with their food. 

To be fair: I'm just saying that the French or Dutch would be rebelling by now. Nobody wants to pay taxes and then get incorporated for some dumb grey old guys to get nothing in return. 

Good luck guys. I hope you win! It will be a moral victory for the world and we need one with all the other crap going on. 

PS. What happened to your political leaders? No offense but they all seem like idiots democrat or republican. Especially Trump. 

[Xenalite]

That was a big non-sequitur to the discussion at hand.

I see that basic economic reasoning does not work here, but you touched on the "un-American" side.

I feel sad that once a great country like USA is slowly circling down the drain like the rest of European countries, with growth of centralised federal government, regulations and rules imposed on the lives of people and the market in which they operate. Regulations kill freedom, and that's the most un-American thing here.

"Too many people treat companies and corporations as their enemies, and the big government as their savior." And once you establish a precedent, it's impossible to go back. Once you allow to regulate something, you show that the government can have any say over it, and there come the lobbyists soon to follow.

You would replace a series of completely voluntary contracts between parties concerned with a coercive hand of government. And to what? Prop up a law that is no better than any other market regulation failure that governments have been involved in over the years, including rent control, getting rid of roaming charges in EU, minimum wage, anti-gauging, tariffs on imports / exports and all forms of market protectionism. All things, which sound good, and have the opposite effect.

And.. you'd be giving this power to the FCC, the most unconstitutional of all federal agencies, which should be immediately disbanded rather than given more leeway.

I come from a post-socialist country, Poland, and now live in the disaster that is the EU. I can tell you that the more regulations you pile on the market, the worse will be the outcome and the less consumer freedoms you will enjoy.

[=VG= SemlerPDX]

On 7/16/2017 at 1:52 PM, Xenalite said:

Regulations kill freedom, and that's the most un-American thing here.

 

I don't know where the hell you are coming from (aside from the fact that you stated where you came from and where you are now) 

When you say those things as if government regulation of industry is a bad thing, when in fact it is absolutely necessary in at least some level of monitoring and oversight, I have no clue where you are coming from.  This doesn't mean handing over control of these things completely to the government, but it does allow for fair and equitable business practices to be enforced, and a whole host of other important factors to be determined not solely by the business itself.  In all industries, it is common to have some level of regulation.

There must be some middle ground.  It's been proven that greedy ass businessmen would do any number of immoral or unjust things in order to make money, and they cannot all be trusted to act in a right manner.

You say these things as if you've studied American history, so you may already know.  This country has been fighting back the Baron's for hundreds of years, and only through blood, sweat, and tears have we come to some sort of equitable state of what we call freedom in our democracy - a freedom that includes a degree of government regulation in nearly all industries.  It certainly is not perfect, and could use plenty of work, but when an organized group of bully businesses attempt to pull this kind of crap, it isn't hard to boil it down to what we all know is just another attempt at a market share cash grab, and I could give a damn if they think it's better for the internet to be segregated between the "fast" and "slow" lanes.  I'll say it again, it's Un-American.  It goes against the freedom we now enjoy on the internet.  I do not believe the ISP's should have this level of control over the specific traffic on their infrastructure.  I could come up with a million reasons, but I could also point your attention to the links I've posted.

Have you even read this thing?  Do you even know what Title II does for us Americans?  It prevents these greedy ISP's from "charging consumers more money in exchange for not reducing their Internet speed".  That is damn important enough for me as a dyed-in-the-wool tax paying & voting American to oppose this deceptively named "Restore Internet Freedom Act" aimed directly at my already light wallet.

 

You seem to assume that, while I'm no government loving political party enthusiast, I am a fool to think my government can be a savior to me at times, that some of the regulations my government puts on industries here help us greatly.  You're talking to a disabled American here.  For years, I could not even get health insurance if I had cash in hand, my friend.  If I worked my 40 hours a week back when I worked, when I punched my time clock just like everyone else, I was unable to get the same health insurance (or any) as my co-workers - I had the money, just like they did.  I could not get regular medical care.  I had a pre-existing condition; I messed my body up a bit when I was a young man, still living with my family under their health insurance.  When I went to live MY life on my own, my condition prevented me from ever getting health care again.  Over 15 years without a doctor.

Then the government stepped in and made it so I, and so many more like me, could actually get insurance and health care.  A little regulation and the system is more fair - things could always be better, tweaked, fixed, amended. But I can enjoy some of the same freedoms as my fellow Americans now.

[Jersans]

Though slightly off topic I'd like to comment/rant on this whole free market farce as mentioned above.

Firstly. True 'Free' markets don't need to be regulated, sheer competion between businesses ensures self-regulation.

Monopolies and cartels with government support however are vile and evil. This is what we're talking about. 

To give an idea: It's a like the old mining industry in Europe during the 19th and 20th century. This was when the mining company actually owned the houses, shops and watering holes where it was able to force you to spend every penny. That's not free market it's just a huge problem for average hard-working Joe.

First you bust your nuts for little pay in the mines, then you spend half your pay on rent in the mine owned house. You need to feed your kids so that goes to the mine owned shops. So now you're depressed because your life sucks so you drink like hell in the mine owned bar. And there's something very wrong with that. You have to be able to see what is wrong there. It's damn near slavery. 

Personally I'm right of the center politically, but even I understood long ago that there are some things that need to be regulated for and by the people at a basic level. Education, healthcare, water, electricity, infrastructure and access to information.

Sure if you're really successful you should buy a house or rent 'top-notch' go to a private clinic for the best doctors money can buy, drive to work in fancy car send your kids to private school and get the most expensive access to information. And more. 

But if you're less fortunate you should still be able to see a doctor, get to work on a bus, drink clean water, have electricity, have access to a library or the internet and be able to send your kids to school.

Why? Because that poor kid with a kidney problem that got a chance to a decent life might just invent the cure for cancer or create something else magical that helps humanity forward.

There's not some crazy leftist ideology behind this, it simply works best. We see this in most European countries. Low crime rates, overall happiness and prosperity and moreover safety for most people. People don't want to leave the country or EU they want to get the fuck in because it sucks elsewhere.

You can say what you want about Europe or the EU but by comparison our heavily regulated countries have been in top 20 of just about everything that can be considered positive. Prosperity, Healthcare, Education etc. And this includes our newly adopted Eastern European brothers. Look at Estonia or Czechia or Poland? See the difference between now and then. 

A healthy mix between free market, investment and regulation.

I myself am living in post-communist country and I can tell you that life has improved and is improving year after year for the majority of people. The crackdown on corruption and organized crime is ongoing and will probably never end but compare it to Africa, Russia or China and even the US and you'll never want to live elsewhere. Only countries like Norway, Switzerland, Canada and Australia can compete. Not great, not perfect but definitely and by far better. 

So yes my American brothers Net Neutrality is a big deal!!! And you better fight for it. And from the looks of it a lot more to keep America great and possibly make it greater. 

 

Rant over. Delete if appropriate. 

[=VG= SemlerPDX]

13 hours ago, Jersans said:

don't you have competitive ISP's meaning one can advertise on not adhering?

Your options are based on where you happen to live.  You don't get to choose your electric company, or your water company, and if you want the fastest internet, in most major cities in America, you're going with a major telecom company who laid the lines (and one per major city, the big boys don't compete on the same turf).  If you are going with some other ISP in the area, if I am not mistaken, they may well be a re-seller on the same infrastructure, meaning your true "choice" in high-speed cable internet is a bit of an illusion.  Smaller areas have fewer choices, in the end, shit rolls downhill.  If the big ISP's start pulling this crap, everyone will fall in line.  Like I said before, they'll be charging for the internet coming, going, and in-between as well.

Of course you could always go with satellite internet.... 

For me in my city, it's Time Warner (Comcast) holding the power - spend an hour on the phone with these pricks and you'll have as little faith in "fair businesses regulating themselves" as I do.

[Jersans]

3 minutes ago, =VG= SemlerPDX said:

Your options are based on where you happen to live.

Yeah well here's the thing. In our overly regulated countries on average I get to choose between 6-7 banks, 2-3 electricity providers, several universal / private healthcare providers, 3-4 internet providers, 3 mobile phone providers and 2 gas companies. They have to fight to get me as a customer and moreover fight to keep me as a customer. And this is important. They actually have to fight to keep me as a customer. Because if they try to fuck with me I can quite easily go to their competitor. And moreover because our governments don't allow them to form a cartel of have a monopoly they can't collude or conspire to fuck me over. They can have their 'fair' business, excellent profits and more or less satisfied customers that stay with their services. This in my humble opinion is more like how it should be. I want to be able to buy my bread, meat, beer or whatever with either Bob, Tim or Christina and spend my money with whomever I like more, think is better as a service or whichever my reasons are.  Perhaps I just think Christina is hot but whatever the reasons cartel-forming and monopolies with government support should always be fought against HARD.  We see this in all those place we DON't want to live. *cough* RUSSIA *cough* 

[Jersans]

11 hours ago, Xenalite said:

I come from a post-socialist country, Poland, and now live in the disaster that is the EU. I can tell you that the more regulations you pile on the market, the worse will be the outcome and the less consumer freedoms you will enjoy.

Also - I just have to rant. Because it irritates me. 

Firstly you don't come from a 'post-socialist' country. You come from a former Stalinist insane oppressed country, and my friend that is not socialism but more Stalinist communism which is NOT quite different from oligarchy and autocracy.. Those are simply not the same. NOT AT all.  Sweden and Norway are socialist countries. They're fucking rich and considered some of the best places to live in. Iceland is socialist. You poor Polish guys were fucked by Stalin after WW2 and we fought hard to bring you into our prosperity. Don't you ever forget that and don't believe what you read on extreme right-wing bullshit Russian sponsored fake-news. Is it perfect? NO. Is it better? YES. Are you better off then ever? FUCKING HELL YEAH! 

Secondly. You don't live in the 'disaster' that is the EU. You (Poland) as a country have benefited THE most from all the free market investments WE (western Europeans) have done in your country both via EU and via business. Poland is fucking booming and has never been richer. There are Polish districts in Dublin right now. Never have Polish people had it better. Not under the Lithuanians, not under the Russians, not on your own and not under the Germans! It's honestly sad to see someone bite the hand that feeds/invests in you because my country for example pays shit-loads of money so your country can profit and later we can profit too (we're business people). It's called investments. 

I like you, you're a great buddy but please invest some time into what is real and what is not. Is the EU shit? Yes on various levels it sucks because it's fucking limited. It's limited because of freedom and democracy. Is it better than pretty much everywhere else. Yes it fucking is. So get on board and make it better or shut your mouth and enjoy a better life that your grandparents wished for. 

I prefer the former. Please work hard to make it better. 

[Xenalite]

I'd be happy to discuss with you why you're wrong on socialism, EU and ACA healthcare, but perhaps some other time. Let's stay on topic of NN and not get emotional.

I will explain where I come from Semler. I am as right-wing as it gets, free market capitalist, borderline on anarcho-capitalism. I believe that nearly every problem we face in the economy can be traced back to a bad government policy and meddling of special interest groups in law-making.

You almost realized this when mentioning monopolies. After all, why is NN even an issue? To say that you support or reject it, without supporting or rejecting the underlying problem is superficial at best. NN is a direct result of government-sponsored mono- or duo-polies in ISP business. I say government sponsored, because they are regulated by various FCC regulations, anti trust laws and bits of legislation. As you said, you try launching a medium sized ISP, you'll see how far you'll get. And as you rightly point out, companies do not regulate themselves. In a free market, companies regulate each other. It's in no companies' interest to regulate themselves when they have the market cornered. It's another matter entirely when they have to compete for customers who have a choice.

I used to live out in the countryside, where the only choice was poor broadband or 2G mobile. Not much choice there. Why? Because BT in the UK owns all the cables. It's changing now with Virgin Media who said screw your monopoly and started laying down cables themselves.

Back to NN, it's in no ISPs interest to provide equal-priced access to traffic regardless of size. It's also in their interest to keep their monopoly on decision making. This is why they have lobbyists in the goverment and FCC, and do shady shit. The same goes the other way for content providers. Now they want a piece of government-sponsored protection in form of equal treatment regardless of traffic consumption. So, in short NN is a proposal to solve a government-caused issue by more government.

I say do both: oppose government meddling in ISPs traffic pricing and oppose government sponsored ISP monopolies to provide competition.

[=VG= SemlerPDX]

5 hours ago, Xenalite said:

I say do both: oppose government meddling in ISPs traffic pricing and oppose government sponsored ISP monopolies to provide competition.

Yep.  That's pretty much what we do as Americans - us "little guys".  But one step at a time.  THIS legislation needs to stop here and now, and only Americans can do it.

*I appreciate our discussion here, and I respect our differing views.  I don't mind.  Of course, we never discuss politics publicly on our forums here for good reason, but I'm glad none of us are going too far off topic or devolving into what some of these crazy people get like.

It's probably best to keep it light.  No public leader is going to read our words here, and not one of us is going to win or lose any significant battle for the success of the human race in this little forum here, we're merely trying to help spread the word about this issue to our fellow American gamers in this community who most certainly all support our current Net Neutrality rules and the protections they extend in an effort to motivate them to act before it is too late.  Too much legislation roles through unnoticed, gets passed without input from those it effects, and many times that is the actual plan of those proposing it.

Remember, this is the goal of this post.  Not necessarily to debate the rights of these poor, unfortunate internet service providers and their struggling business models.

When you ask yourself how I can say so confidently that every American gamer here in the VG community is against repealing our Net Neutrality rules, just ask any one of them if they would like to pay more money for their internet bill to keep if from slowing down from their currently rated Mb/s Up/Down.  Again, remember, this is DIFFERENT that paying more for faster speeds - we already do that.  This is getting us coming and going!

[Diguelo]

OK with regard to internet throttling, work it out, does your computer continually use a download speed of 40MB/sec I and my business both have the same line and I doubt I ever use a tenth of what Im allowed.

I live in the UK and over here throttling is done to provide an equal share of internet for those that pay for it.

Basic Internet, which is ADSL Analogue Digital Service line for phone use as well as internet.

Advanced internet or VDSL Basic, this is phones and broadband up to 40MB/sec

The full monty, VDSL up to 70MB/sec for TV streaming, phones and Broadband for internet.

I pay my company what I believe to be a fair rate and considering my usage of the line they have actually reduced the amount I should pay from £32 per month including line rental, down to £26 a month. Line rental alone which takes into account service faults, like cars parking up telegraph poles at 2am and they have the services back up inside of an hour.

Throttling is said by ALL firms not to happen, but a pair of wires coming into your house can only carry so much and does suffer with signal degradation if you try and cram more down it then it can handle, so 5pm comes around and everyone comes home from work or school, guess what, they sit watching TV or the kids are on the XBox etc and the load to your property and everyone elses that does the same goes up. Throttling in the UK is used only at peak times and yes businesses do get a bigger share but then again for what difference it makes to an average home user its a drop in the ocean. Unless of course you insist on having the right to download games and movies 24/7 365 days a year, but that would be kind fo pointless. Throttling back on some lines has to be done, on low user home s that dont have TV packages mine gets throttled back an enormous 0.8% oh my god that means instead of the 40MB/sec im only getting 39.whateverMB/sec OH MY GOD MY WORLDS COMING APART.

 

Start an act of pay for what you use and the speed you want is the rule here in the UK, I could manage on an old 6MB/sec line for £3 a month pluss line rental and still get the same usage out of my internet apart from the faster download speed which is a tad slow since I switched UP its been at around 38 - 40 MB/second constantly, each month my router sends me a graph of line speed just for the record. YOUR THE ONES THAT ELECTED TRUMP IN THE FIRST PLACE. Whats his first job oh yes sack the boss of the FBI for doing his job. Maybe you should have actually gone to that polling station each year and added a vote. If you did then good for you, if you didnt then I dont see how you have a right to complain. At the end of the day, thinking about it, throttling makes complete sense, I mean does gaming online take up 99% of your T1 lines speed, nope barely 3% does the XBox or PS take up it all, nope about 5% apart from updates which of course throttle your speed without you knowing because your consoles switched off right, wrong they only go into a sleep mode till they receive a signal to download game patches, system updates and other stuff youll never need. If you want to turn em off, pull the plug out of the socket, they dont work with no electricity. Then again it wears your socket out, so maybe buy an inline switch for the power, but that involves doing something about it.

The ULTIMATE SOLUTION, scream and shout about it, bang your heads on the walls for a hour or so and yell it from the rooftops till your lungs hurt and guess what, the act will get passed with or without your say in any of it. What was it Axel Rose said many years back "I DONT NEED YOUR CIVIL WAR" maybe next election vote for him or arnie, then youll find out the people with the pull arent the politicians its the businesses that pay the taxes. Throttlings been going on in the UK since we bgot National Broadband to over 95% of the country, what about the other 5% aww screw them they live out in the middle of nowhere why do they need our glorious internet.

Now an eye opener for you. IP4 those of you that know what it is basically its your internet address, well there are 7 billion people in this world now as well as billions of internet web sites and so they introduce IPv6 because they ran out of addresses to give users. The clicmb in the rate of users and sites has started to make the worlds phone infrastructure get a little stretched. I know it took our Talacom giant nearly 2 months just to convert the small village I live in of around 5000 houses or so to the fast broadband and now they cant add any more, the changes they made werent enough to stem the demand.

If you want to speed up the internet, then for gods sake stop using TV over the internet, thats what your TV has an aerial for and link it to the net just to use net based items, YouTube for your cat videos, NetFlix for your film rentals, saves driving to the DVD rental store that used to be in your town, oh hang on a firm lost his job due to the internet. Well so have many hundreds of thousands world wide, so what it doesnt affect me until your company goes automated and your out of a job. So yeah lets have throttling then it stops the phone companies charging so damn much for line rental.

There Ive done ranting.

[=VG= SemlerPDX]

15 minutes ago, Diguelo said:

The ULTIMATE SOLUTION, scream and shout about it, bang your heads on the walls for a hour or so and yell it from the rooftops till your lungs hurt and guess what, the act will get passed with or without your say in any of it.

No, that is not the ultimate solution, and yes, we can prevent legislation from getting passed.  We don't take that sort of apathetic attitude towards this sort of legislation, and if we did, things would be a lot worse than they are now.

We need to act, and not just scream and shout about it - we need to shout to the right people, and that is what this thread is all about - raising public awareness to take action.

[Diguelo]

We did the same thing and we got Nationwide Broadband for all, now the bad thing, it runs an a network of wires that cant take it.

Forgot to add its going to take till 2025 or so to get everyone in the UK onto cable, as long as they can find someone to fit it in places other than London, Birmingham, Nottigham, Lincoln, Liecester and the major cities which occupy around 4% of the UK. The rest are told they have and as a PC engineer I go out to folk who live miles from the nearest exchange to tell them that renting the full TV online package out here where your download speed is as bad as dialup was not a good plan. www.pcdatalincs.co.uk ill not url it into a message as its nt right to advertise on a forum its their in case you need proof of what I do for a living.

Take a look on the satellite maps on Google and you tell me how many houses there are in a county this size and they all get it rammed down their throats they have what they dont have, trust us we are your government. For our antiquated system of network, having high speed broadband means you live insde of 4 miles radius of an exchange spread out exchange to exchange in our county or state by 30 to fifty miles or so. Like dropping a mark 82 in the middle of Vegas and expecting it to level the city

Forgot one point I recall an incident some years back now where the entire NE of the USA got blacked out, due to antiquated system of wiring i believe they put it down too or something like that. To keep the internet at top grade for everyone requires a massive change of NET infrastructure. In the USA thats going to to be a whole lotta wonga to get paid, whose going to pay for it to be done, the government nope they are trying to avoid it by throttling back an already overloaded system. We have the same issues.

I mean no disrespect, just pointing out that to have what you want you need to have the means to provide it and the cost of doing so or the infrastructure just isnt there. Technology is advancing too fast to cope. WHy you think your phone went from 3G to 4G, because its faster, nope its to take the city traffic off the network and stick it on the overcrowded 3G network

[FatAlbert]

Net neutrality....I always thought that was a given.  But the internet has never been "neutral".  

What's next rainwater being rationed?  Oh - that's already happened.  An unnamed city in the U.S. has declared Rainwater as being the property of the city.  AND they sent a man to jail for water theft....because he had a pond formed by rainwater, on his property - even though he had the proper permits - which they revoked.

It's the same old argument.... Sacrificing the rights of an individual for the good of the many.

But now, we are sacrificing the rights of many to benefit the few.

such a shame.