Some suggestions for insurgency

[Jager]

Gameplay changes


1. Removing AGS-30, GMG, Mk19

All these weapons on cars are valuable tools in the right hands but for the most part they provide noobs a golden chance to light up a ao without care for others, be it day or night.
I purpose that we remove all the cars / vehicles that has grenade launchers at least from the regular insurgency server, both to avoid funny biz and also as a balance thing for opfor.

2. Restricting CAS

Doing this will keep CAS within a trusted group and also enforce the need to have at least one AT person in the squad.


"PvP" / Opfor changes / bugs

First of all enabling Opfor changes the game and makes it last longer, sorta takes me back to the time before we got transport on demand.
Every caches generally takes longer and interesting situations develops during the gameplay, and the majority of the people I've played with has enjoyed it when it was done right.

For a successful Bluefor vs Opfor sessions both sides need to have some decent players that know what they are doing, also one important thing to remember is that it's not pure PvP at least the scales are heavily in favor for Bluefor.
Simply because of the several force multipliers that Bluefor has which are:

• Scoped weapons

- Not uncommon to get hit as Opfor outside of viewdistance / effective weapons range either from indirect fire ( GMG / Mortar ) or direct fire Long range weapons.

• The ability to bring with them their chosen gear anywhere on the map

- Opfor takes what they can get and do not keep aquired guns on teleport.

• Easy access to CAS

- For an enjoyable game as Opfor it cannot be overused.

• Slightly better armor

- Not sure if that is accurate but the general feel is that Bluefor has more armor ( takes more rounds to finish a player )

• Wide range of gear both in terms of weapons but also binos / rangefinders / NVG's and stationary weapons

As Opfor the force multipliers are:

• Instant teleport

- Either in battle or outside, that allows you quick movement across the map, but it can sometimes bug and rubberband spawn you to the same soldier no matter how you move.

• Random access to cars and armor

- This is something that is not working very well, first of all you need visual of the vehicle you want to get inside of. Once you are inside you are locked to that spot and moving to a different spot inside will normally dismount you. ( Opfor group leader asks you to ) and no player Opfor is able to spawn into the vehicle with you inside but they can get inside if you pick them up.
As for Bluefor vehicles you can sometimes get inside them but it's a tad hit and miss.

• Ex Navy Seal RPG snipers

- Most of the RPG carrying soldiers that are AI controlled can plant a AT rocket in your head from 0-700M away.

• Access to mounted weapons

- Which mostly has no ammo.

Changing some things like removing the vehicles with GMG and keeping HMG's as well as limiting CAS even more can provide better gameplay.

Finding some balance between Bluefor weapons and Opfor weapons is harder, one way of doing it is removing most weapons with scopes but that does not feel entirely right either.
Pretty sure I had some more ideas laying around but I was drunk at the time so they'll probably come to me eventually.

But it is very essential that people on the server at the time is up for the added challenge, also there has been about 3-4 times this last weeks that there has been a wait time on Bluefor side since the server has been full and opening Opfor side is generally a good idea then.

Let me know what you think.

[=VG= Outlanders]

Well, i would love to play as OPFOR

[suomikeizari]

sounds cool should enhance gameplay a lot!
but I still think that we should think how we can fill our ACE/ACRE insurgency instead of vanilla one

[Jager]

Well it's easier said than done, the majority of players playing on the regular server are serverhoppers.
And most of them has no clue they are even on a clan server even less know of the webpage or ts.

[=VG= SavageCDN (Inactive Duty)]

Thanks for posting this up Jager

Castor =VG= LAN_WROTE ...

but I still think that we should think how we can fill our ACE/ACRE insurgency instead of vanilla one

I agree we should get some ideas and see if we can get more players into ACE/ACRE but the mods server will never be as full as the vanilla one due to the fact it runs mods. Now, with the popularity of DayZ and Six-Updater that may change as people can easily load up the mods they need and go....


Re: changes to Insurgency

1. Removing AGS-30, GMG, Mk19

YES PLEASE

2. Restricting CAS

YES PLEASE

3. OPFOR

I really like the idea of enabling limited OPFOR on the server. As Jager mentioned this will have to be somewhat controlled.. and it will be due to the fact that the default parameter is COOP only.. so you need an admin to change that to OPFOR ratio.

I think this will get more VG players into the Insurgency server as it changes the gameplay and allows for some fun tactics... I would even go as far as to say that OPFOR players must be a) on teamspeak and b) players we know (regulars, VG members, etc).

[=VG= SemlerPDX]

I don't want to shut you down, because we all value input. It is just that my/our goals for that server differ.

Not sure about adding OPFOR playable - for one simple reason you put up already:
"For a successful Bluefor vs Opfor sessions both sides need to have some decent players that know what they are doing"

And they do not know or follow any special rules we lay down on the website because:

"the majority of players playing on the regular server are serverhoppers... ...most of them has no clue they are even on a clan server even less know of the webpage or ts."

People aren't interested in anything but pwning BLUFOR and they do so with a frustrating precision because when they die as OPFOR, they teleport into a soldier in the same AO, with new area knowledge of where BLUFOR are, and exploit that knowledge to ambush or otherwise counter attack in a way that is more disruptive to teamplay than it is tactical. It's straight cheating, in many ways.


If you want to make the caches take longer, we need to remove SpaceBar Scanning. Removing BLUFOR Mk19 and other grenade launchers is a good idea, losing scoped weapons is not.
Also, would like to remove server messages as well. No need for JIP GUID's to be broadcast all over the screen...

We play COOP here, and it's an open public server. If we were to run a PvP server, we'd have to do it with a crowd that actually uses teamwork, and would do so on a mission that wasn't so unbalanced. Taking Insurgency and trying to balance it so that PvP is possible would change the game entirely.

As I see it, Vanilla COOP Insurgency is already very popular, and I'm loath to change anything major without good reason. As you said yourself, "there has been about 3-4 times this last weeks that there has been a wait time on Bluefor side since the server has been full"

Seriously, look at these numbers:

If you make an Insurgency Revision that makes OPFOR less OP, and balances things on BLUFOR (no Mk19, etc), I would try it out on it's own server before changing VG COOP Insurgency.

That is gonna stay very much like it is, with any revisions well thought out and carefully implemented - ready to roll back at the first sign of popularity loss.

VG COOP Insurgency will always be COOP Only - never PvP.
We can, however, run a PvP version or game on a different server at some point to try it out. I'm busy with other missions, but you can submit one to us, and we'll try it out if you wanna do the coding/scripting.

!cheers

[=VG= SemlerPDX]

With regard to Savage's reply:

Again, most Insurgency players don't know rules - specialized rules would be hard to enforce.

Also, the server clears out, people complain to high hell, when OPFOR is enabled. This is particularly true when the OPFOR is manned by players who know how/what to do to maximize pwnage. They deal it so swiftly through teleport respawn that BLUFOR can never "keep a good man down" - meaning that BLUFOR never gets a chance to send the Human OPFOR back to "spawn" to regroup. They are instantly harrassed by them within seconds, and again, the returning OPFOR player has intimate area knowledge, including BLUFOR positions, to exploit upon respawn.

OPFOR should be it's own thing, on it's own server...

(again, not trying to shut down a discussion - these are simply my opinions, and I feel strongly about them)

[Jager]

Hehe I predicted you'd be against it but that is fine, what I purpose is not a pure PvP server but simply some sessions were Opfor is enabled when the server population wants it.

If a single person on the server is against it I keep it as pure Coop, but so far you are the only critic I've encountered both in game and on the forums.
Therefor I feel it's wrong to shoot down an idea simply because you feel so strongly but don't really play on the server on a regular basis.
If I was trying to push such a change on the Ace insurgency server or on the MSO project I'd be more understanding of your point of view.

But as I've stated before, to have a successful session where Opfor is enabled requires that you have decent players on both sides, both in the sense that they know what they are doing but also people that understand it's a game.

When I go Opfor I don't go Opfor to rack up the kills but simply to try and give the Bluefor side a tad more of a challenge.

[=VG= SemlerPDX]

Yea, but you're honorable. And I trust you.

If you mean solely for situations where you're in-game, and everyone there is like, hey - "let's do opfor on this one", then do it. That is not such a big deal at all.

That's why you have the admin login pw, or at least several people do. It will automatically revert to default upon loading the next map. Same thing, you can login and set the parameter.

Note that if enough of the players wish to stop doing that, then take that into account on the next mission to load, and let it be COOP again. Feel free to give the players online what they want, either way that is. Whatever. Anything goes when you are actually on the server, with the players, and talking with them.

We do that on i44 - it has been set to run Domi, but we get a good group online, and everyone is down for a custom mission or whatever.

Also, I thought that CAS was relegated to a select few, with you being one of them. If this changed, we can fix it for sure.

Voting is disabled for map rotation reasons only.

And I do play Insurgency, for the record. We just don't have logging in GameTracker yet, till we claim the server.
I haven't seen you online at same time yet, but I only play at certain random times cuz I don't have air conditioning and it gets very hot mid day.

Also, I've been loving the Mustang in i44 with my TrackIR. So fun! !cp

[Jager]

Hehe glad we could clear up that ;)

Yeah when I'm on I keep a close eye on things, a fair bit of time goes towards teaching newbies the ropes.
With time we might get more regulars that way, I just recall starting out and being greeted by newbie friendly people :p

As for CAS it's on call for everyone on the list, everyone else needs to wait 20mins or so but longer sessions everyone can get it at some point so I've started to disable CAS to enforce more tubes on the ground.

Anyhow those game changes are mostly thoughts I have which I'd pass on to fireball but dunno how, maybe pitn could be of help there?

[=VG= SavageCDN (Inactive Duty)]

SemlerPDX =VG= LAN_WROTE ...

Yea, but you're honorable. And I trust you.

If you mean solely for situations where you're in-game, and everyone there is like, hey - "let's do opfor on this one", then do it. That is not such a big deal at all.

That's why you have the admin login pw, or at least several people do. It will automatically revert to default upon loading the next map. Same thing, you can login and set the parameter.

Note that if enough of the players wish to stop doing that, then take that into account on the next mission to load, and let it be COOP again. Feel free to give the players online what they want, either way that is. Whatever. Anything goes when you are actually on the server, with the players, and talking with them.

This is what I was getting at.. as it stands now the only way to enable OPFOR is for an admin to change the parameter ... which should STAY that way. Only if the players want to try it and an admin agrees does it get changed for the next round.

I'm also basing my opinion on what other players have told me.. in that they have a lot of fun when OPFOR is enabled and everyone is in agreement

[=VG= Outlanders]

Castor =VG= LAN_WROTE ...

sounds cool should enhance gameplay a lot!
but I still think that we should think how we can fill our ACE/ACRE insurgency instead of vanilla one

I remember having about 20 people trying to join us when we were playing on Fallujah, problem with those people is that they all are random, they don't have mods installed. They got kicked off, they go play somewhere else. If they don't check the site and ts, theres nothing we can do about that. Maybe that's not a problem, i don't really like to play with randoms.

About vanilla server, maybe we could enable OPFOR just when we want it, so only clan member and associates play as insurgents.

SavageCDN =VG= LAN_WROTE ...

This is what I was getting at.. as it stands now the only way to enable OPFOR is for an admin to change the parameter ... which should STAY that way. Only if the players want to try it and an admin agrees does it get changed for the next round.

I'm also basing my opinion on what other players have told me.. in that they have a lot of fun when OPFOR is enabled and everyone is in agreement

I agree

[=VG= SemlerPDX]

I could script it so that people on a certain list, just like the CAS thing used to be, are allowed to play OPFOR provided that they do come online and agree to a few rules.

It seems a bit redundant, though, with the ability to have admin login and set it at request.
!cheers

[=VG= SavageCDN (Inactive Duty)]

We could try it out for a few days on the DEV server with it clearly marked OPFOR ENABLED or something... that way we'd get a good idea of how popular it would be as well as seeing how it works and possibly tweaking certain things

[AKM]

Fully agree with 1 and 2.

Some ideas:
1.Add opfor units with scoped weapons. AKS74 PSO and maybe SVD (takistan army sniper).
2.Remove helicopter from HQ helipad. No one uses it properly. If we really need big one we can call it, right?
3.ACR version really need helicopter instead of this useless An2 biplane. UH-1H from 'People of Takistan' faction looks ideal for this.

[=VG= SavageCDN (Inactive Duty)]

^ what are your thoughts on having occasional OPFOR players AKM? We should really hear from those that actually play on the Insurgency server regularly !yes

[PITN]

I have a long winded post but in short, Most OPFOR only grief. Few play the role as intented.

GMG's can be countered with a civillian death counter / puunishment system. How to implement this correctly is another story.
Scoped opfor, there is an SVD at the cache.
Armor and toys, no. You are an insurgent. Steal your shit. This includes NVG and Scopes.
Access to vehicles. Yes. I am thninking of a call system similair to the one BLUFOR has.
OPFOR becomes automatically enabled when the server pop reaches 25 or 30 + players.

When we first launched the Insurgency server we had OPFOR on because we had to. When enabled the OPFOR team would grief the newb players until they rage quit from the server. This is counter productive when you are trying to populate a server. So to combat this problem OPFOR was disabeld. Now with the server reaching capacity PFO can now be turned on and the players being griefed are OPFOR. So it now requires skill and cunning to attack blufor.


Also, the last admin on during an OPFOR event needs to set the OPFOR to off before leaving. I came home to an empty server last night to find that OPFOR was still enabled and an OPFOR soldier with nearly 100 kills. Until the server has a population dynamic OPFOR script this needs to be adheared to.

[Jager]

Yeah that was probably my bad, but for now I stick to shorter sessions, 2-3 caches with opfor.

[RQyksopp]

I'm often found playing on the Insurgency server, and today I spent half my day playing as optfor.
I found this change very exciting and fun. I feel normal coop is easy and becomes booring fast.
AI are predictable, you know where they are and theres no tension or feeling when engaging an AI.

Being able to play as optfor increases the realism.

- bluefor can easily get flanked and surrounded w/o proper communication.

- Using the element of surprise as optfor to your advantage, hit and run. It's highly effective

- CAS use really shines now. bluefor is ambushed and locked down, cant properly locate the target. Call in CAS in the area.

- bluefor can nolonger walk in the open/sniping on a hill w/o worrying about being shot.

- The need for tactics and strategy for the bluefort increases dramatically. Before the whole squad could run down the
mountain slide and run straight into the city/village. Its a slaughterhouse if they try that now.

As for future changes

bluefor vs optfor should be unbalanced gear wise.
I agree to remove the grenade launcher. It wrecks everything and everyone.
Scoped weapons for bluefor should stay. Would rather remove the TWS weapons(thermal)
Scoped weapons for optfor, there is really no need. A steady hand and a enfield/FN FAL could do the same thing as a SVD
Change the armor value on bluefor, a optfor dies from a single enfield round. bluefor gets knocked out after 1-2 hits
and killed by 2-3 more.
Being optfor should be restricted to members.

[suomikeizari]

SavageCDN =VG= LAN_WROTE ...

I agree we should get some ideas and see if we can get more players into ACE/ACRE but the mods server will never be as full as the vanilla one due to the fact it runs mods. Now, with the popularity of DayZ and Six-Updater that may change as people can easily load up the mods they need and go....

but this is where you are not entirely right, I mean check out the [ST3] ACE/ACRE insurgency's both Zargabad and Lingor Island server, they have been to constantly max BOTH servers (in total 60 players, most of them are non-Clan) without us even hearing much about them (at least me), also 15th MEU is doing quite good as well with it's Takistan map.

also the amount of teamplay and communication these people reach is beyond our imagination, especially in vanilla INS.

We try to skip the whole problem with the name ''DayZ'' all the time without seeing that there is a large amount of players playing this game mode with maps that need A LOT of mods.
and truth to be told, if we had a moderately manned ACE/ACRE insurgency up almost no one would like to play the vanilla one.

EDIT: sorry about hijacking your thread in the name of ACE/ACRE jager :)

[AKM]

Scoped opfor, there is an SVD at the cache.

AI cant get it from cache, isn't it ? Im talking about new type of enemy not about new toys for opfor players.

Scoped weapons for optfor, there is really no need. A steady hand and a enfield/FN FAL could do the same thing as a SVD

Oh... on 300-350m distance your front sight already bigger than your target.

Real insurgents use SVD and other scoped weapons. What's the problem ?

IMO this playable opfor is just a waste of time. Maybe its fun sometimes but without real chance to stop bluefor and any balance... no thanks.

[ridDle]

I've had plenty of chances to stop bluefor. Its also fun laying on the cache with an IED where you constantly add 30 secs when they get close. Then shout Allahu Akhbar as you blow them up.

[PITN]

Good one.

[AKM]

I've had plenty of chances to stop bluefor.

Problem is no any time or deaths limit for bluefor. You can kill them, steal their humvees and play with your IED's as long as you want but sooner or later they find all caches.

[Jager]

Sounds like you want capture the flag ^^