Recon/SF training mission WIP

[suomikeizari]

I just put a TON of work behind this, please take a look and give me some feedback!

MODS: ACE and ACRE stuff...

https://www.dropbox.com/s/pig6tt4zkg446ho/CO18_Recon_training_ENG_v01.Chernarus.pbo

[=VG= SavageCDN (Inactive Duty)]

I'll check it out when I get a chance.. this weekend probably.

[suomikeizari]

About to be tested in AFI, dunno if people care or not but I will upload the updated version none the less!

[=VG= SavageCDN (Inactive Duty)]

Thanks Castor will check it out on Friday

[suomikeizari]

Yeah, I suppose this is a silly place to post this since when dont go that "in depth" with arma gameplay :)

[=VG= Ingo]

check yourself before you wreck yourself.

[Vetala]

After having played your mission for 2 ? 3 hours tonight I have come up with a list of feedback and/or improvements for you:-
To start off I shall point out some improvements that could be used at your Base / Starting Point
- A wider selection of weapons would be welcomed, you have M4s, but why no M16s, MK16/17s or anything else in that range.
- Having ammo and weapons separate may seem to be a good idea, but all it does is lengthen the time it takes to gear up(A common complaint of yours), especially since when you pick your weapon your ammo is added automatically if they are in the same crate.
- There is also no explosives or Anti tank launchers. I know in your objectives you said to use CAS to destroy objectives but a good Spec Ops team would be able to sneak in and plant charges(SAS style) without the help of CAS. It also adds a variety of ways to complete your objects and new things to train in so we can become as good as you.
- While on the subject of using CAS to destroy objectives, there is no laser designator or batteries to power said designator, thus there is no way to laser a target to be taken out with the CAS?s GBUs etc. I'm not that good with smoke.
- More land vehicles would also be welcome purely for a wider range of insertion methods.
- Equipment at the base needs to be more clearly marked. Yes they are marked on the map, but signs around base would also be helpful, or at least have stuff in view distance. When I first joined I had no idea where the weapons and gear crates where because they are hiding behind a wall. Maybe use some of the fancy signs you designed to show people where stuff is.
- Maybe add a vehicle service point because you never know when you will need more ammo or if you going to take damaged from hostile units.
Objective Improvements
- Currently there is no way to know if you have been successful in your mission as there is no indication if you have completed the objective. Adding this will let people know when to move on to their next objective.
- Enemy vehicles should be locked as well. I was able to take out everyone at the airfield and then steal their jet, potentially stopping the objective completing and thus making the entire objective redundant.
- After first contact (A few hundred metres from their first marker in my case) the convoy does not move any more, they just hold their ground. It would be better if the bluefor team gets wiped out or retreats the convoy should continue to their desired destination.
- A marker for convoy start and convoy end would also be useful as it gives bluefor a chance to setup an ambush point if that is their tactical choice.
- There is also a large ammo box that is not destroyable at the supply posts. I?m unsure if this is part of the objective to be destroyed too, but if so this needs to be changed to something that can be destroyed and of course add something to blow it up with as per above.
- An actually briefing and tasks would be a good idea too, instead of burying the objectives in the notes part of the map. This will allow for quick looking up of objectives and save time when picking an AO.

Everything else seems to be alright, especially the healing via ACE as long as you don't alt tab and shoot your friends in the face.

With these improvements I think your mission will be at least tenfold better and may be useful for training purposes, but then again I?m not as ?in depth? when it comes to ARMA.

[suomikeizari]

Alright.

Equipment:

- Considering the addition of 7.62mm caliber weapon. Most weapons in ARMA work pretty much the same, it would not matter if I brought mk16s in the mission since they work pretty much the same as M4, actually even better.
- Considering too, this mission is meant to be played in an orderly fashion where Trainers dictate trainees gear just so no one is too heavy and has everything needed, and discipline is kept for optimal efficiency = shorter training time.
(note that by discipline I mean that you wont shoot each other and listen and train as the trainers say, nothing more)
- Considering, I've done a general ACE-training which has all gear available (only Finnish, might translate if I have time) this training is mainly concentrated on general recon/SF action = small unit tactics/drilling
- Laser batteries are in the ammunition box, I will check and update if needed to the newer version.
- Will do, moar vehicles in the next version

Base:

- Yeap, I'm working on making the base more "base" like with VSPs and all.

Objectives:

None of my missions so far have had any kind of objective tasks since they are unrealistic and silly (how the hell do you know the town is empty?!)
But on this one I agree and will update tasking to the newer version.

- The funny thing about bots is that when they come into contact they wont so much as budge, working on away to fix it, although if i were to fix it, Bohemia interactive would probably hire me, lol.
- There is a convoy start and end marker? I will check and update if needed to the newer version.
- Yeap, explosives it is, though CAS can be used on the crates too.
- The objectives are one of the topics in notes, check it out! I will check and update if needed to the newer version.
- Tasks will be added, anymore briefing is unnecessary since all that is needed is already in the notes and this is merely a training mission.
- If you have ideas for Recon/SF objectives to be added in this mission, please do tell!

A thousand thanks for the feedback! this really helps, were the notes themselves helpful or did you just run it as a mission?

[=VG= Wooz2770]

The funny thing about bots is that when they come into contact they wont so much as budge, working on away to fix it, although if i were to fix it, Bohemia interactive would probably hire me, lol.

Don?t get on a high horse, if i recall correctly, AI using UPSMON or DAC will flank you and suppress you, and another note, we tested some of the other missions you made and uploaded to the LAMBS forum, a general problem with most missions; lack of briefing material and lack of equipment to finish the mission, i can draw one example, one of the secondaries was to destroy and arty base, simple enough, though with no explosives that task becomes very difficult.

The lack of proper briefing material, task or notes means, that when the mission designer is not there to explain it, we don?t understand what the actual objective is.

[=VG= SemlerPDX]

I have reviewed the scripts and mission.sqm and only have a few comments.

EDIT: oops - posted - will edit this and add more...

The briefing specifically can have certain words as links that when clicked move the map to a pre-placed marker for better understanding. Also, the section on equipment should move out of the WIP stage asap and include the step by step procedure involved in linking the DAGR to the Vector 21B, and then the operation of the Vector itelf, to bring up the end data on the DAGR (the stuff you would transmit to, say, a Paladin Commander, or other arty with such precision ammo) - basically a run down of the operation of those two units and their step-by-step usage in the field.

[suomikeizari]

Wooz =VG= LAN_WROTE ...

...
The lack of proper briefing material, task or notes means, that when the mission designer is not there to explain it, we don?t understand what the actual objective is.
...

That is true for the solid snake and Hide'n'seek missions, the others have been tested and fixed already,

Tasks should not be used in missions due to their immersion breaking effect, notes don't always need to tell everything.
But as I said: the solid snake and Hide'n'seek missions are at the moment almost broken and in need of updating.

SemlerPDX =VG= LAN_WROTE ...

...
The briefing specifically can have certain words as links that when clicked move the map to a pre-placed marker for better understanding. Also, the section on equipment should move out of the WIP stage asap and include the step by step procedure involved in linking the DAGR to the Vector 21B, and then the operation of the Vector itelf, to bring up the end data on the DAGR (the stuff you would transmit to, say, a Paladin Commander, or other arty with such precision ammo) - basically a run down of the operation of those two units and their usage in the field.
...

Here's a part of the briefing, I think it pretty much covers it:


4: Forward observer/FAC/JTAC

- Radio procedure
Radio procedure will NOT be taught during this course.

- Equipments and their use
DAGR; is a device that you can use to get information about your targets location,
including: Location, elevation, distance, etc.
You can also get all that information about your location.
Bring up: HOME
Modifying its use: Shift+HOME
DAGR-SOFLAM/Vector connection: Connect to, HELP/SEL, Choose, HELP/SEL
Disconnect DAGR-S/V: Data view, HELP/SEL

SOFLAM; A laser marker and a rangefinder, indisposable tool when working with aircraft.
Laser code change: Shift+Arrow left/right

Vector 21B; same as SOFLAM but not as usable as SOFLAM.

[=VG= Wooz2770]

But here is the thing, when you don?t have proper documentation on what exactly it is you need to destroy at that exact spot, you have to rely on the task being completed, there has to be some sort of balance

[suomikeizari]

IRL you can't always be sure if you got the job done, being unsure is part of the mission itself!

That is the reason also behind not telling everything here: it's Recon training +SF, you are meant to learn how to find, recognize and eliminate the target.

In the solid snake campaign + hide'n'seek the situation is different, true, and it will be fixed

[=VG= SemlerPDX]

SemlerPDX =VG= LAN_WROTE ...

I have reviewed the scripts and mission.sqm and only have a few comments.

EDIT: oops - posted - will edit this and add more...

The briefing specifically can have certain words as links that when clicked move the map to a pre-placed marker for better understanding. Also, the section on equipment should move out of the WIP stage asap and include the step by step procedure involved in linking the DAGR to the Vector 21B, and then the operation of the Vector itelf, to bring up the end data on the DAGR (the stuff you would transmit to, say, a Paladin Commander, or other arty with such precision ammo) - basically a run down of the operation of those two units and their step-by-step usage in the field.

Also, you may expand the expaination of the Vector as you did with the SOFLAM, and add some of the buttons that interact with the SOFLAM and/or how to maintain a designation on a target, changing view modes. If the Equipment Section is not to have any controls instructions or step-by-step (meaning that those are left to the Trainer to teach) then it should either not be in the briefing, or it should impart a complete set of content describing each item's use in the game and what it can do - the Vector description is sorely lacking that. All of this info can be found on the ACE Wiki for each individual item or ACE concept (like ACE Eject System) http://wiki.ace-mod.net/Overview

And Objectives are not as hard as you'd imagine to add - they are not too "video gamey" in that they are needed for a concept of end resolution. Sure, no one really "knows" when a vil is fully clear, shit - somone could have hidden under some floor boards.... but this is a game, a simulator style game, but still a game. At the very least, the Trainer should get a private "all clear" cue when his trainees have finished key parts of a course. How else could you evaluate them???

Anyway, last thing I saw was some use of the call compile preprocessFileLineNumbers calls where usually a simple Variable ExecVM "script.sqf" call is made. Not that it matters that much, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Also, there are redundant and repeated ace functions listed in your description.exe that you should review - again, no big deal, it doesn't hurt anything. But I will note that you should use the IFAK funtion to allow the soldiers to have those items added. A simple value of 1,1,1 would be what a normal soldier in most any military would have on his/her person at any given time. No one does not have those items - no war soldier would go out without them.

Good luck and keep up the scripting - it's the only way to get good at it.

[suomikeizari]

I'll consider adding the full instruction list onto the vectors and equipment, I'd like to note that this training is made for those who know the ACE system, General ACE training is a different matter.

Yeap, tasks will come to the training but not into proper missions, for reason I already stated.

Yeah, i know, those parts are pretty messy at the time, ill try to work on it.
Some of those lines are there to add the possibility of changing your view distance so people with less powerful computers can play it with ease.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Wooz =VG= LAN_WROTE ...

The funny thing about bots is that when they come into contact they wont so much as budge, working on away to fix it, although if i were to fix it, Bohemia interactive would probably hire me, lol.

Don?t get on a high horse, if i recall correctly, AI using UPSMON or DAC will flank you and suppress you
...

True, but they wont reorganize and keep going, they will just keep looking for you until the world ends, or just end up standing about.

And in any event, I can only use the basic ACE/ACRE mods in this one.

[Vetala]

Surely tasks imitate the commands passed down the radio channels from command?
Without tasks you don't know what you're supposed to be doing, which is like a unit going into an AO with no real objective to be completed

[=VG= Gaz]

Tasks really do need to be implemented.. What are you training if your just sending them to do what they already believe they know? They'll come back with the exact same knowlage every single damn time unless they have a task that states damn bro! You got it! You actually got it right this time! You did it better than you usually do. You learned something. You excelled and can be proud of this task completion.. Instaid of. Uh This missions easy! I have done it 100 times the same way and every time its right because i've seen the same thing every time! and theres nothing to tell me I didnt acheive it! So clearly only seeing one enemy was enough!

Tasks are simply required..

[=VG= SemlerPDX]

Castor =VG= LAN_WROTE ...

Some of those lines are there to add the possibility of changing your view distance so people with less powerful computers can play it with ease.

____________________________

......I can only use the basic ACE/ACRE mods in this one.

These are the lines (and it was the init, not the description.exe - my bad) :

ace_sys_wounds_no_medical_gear = true; <-- SetVariable only needed on Medic units if you want them to not have medic gear added automatically

ace_settings_enable_vd_change = true; <--Duplicate
ace_sys_wounds_noai = true; <-- not advisable for ACE Combat Training vs AI
ace_settings_enable_tg_change = true;
ace_sys_eject_fnc_weaponCheckEnabled = { false }; <-- Why?
enableEngineArtillery false;
enableSentences false;
player disableConversation true;

setViewDistance 3500;
ace_settings_enable_vd_change = true; <-- Duplicate
enableSaving [false, false];

[] execVM "briefing.sqf";

[suomikeizari]

It is an artificial way of telling you that all the enemies are dead or that you've done something even when you are not sure, This is the way mission making has been taught to me and which has been a lot more fun.

It's a shame that completing an objective is all that matters to you, but I suppose that level of realism doesnt appeal to everyone!

[=VG= SemlerPDX]

Maybe add these lines:

enableRadio false;
player switchmove "";
player setskill 0;
{player disableAI _x} foreach ["move","anim","target","autotarget"];
player setVariable ["BIS_noCoreConversations", true];


*it is super easy to have DAC do your enemies for you by making a small zone. no biggie at all to add it to the ace/acre mod list

[suomikeizari]

just wondering..

enableRadio false; - is done in the kits.sqf with ''removeallweapons _unit;''
player switchmove ""; - sure, what is this again?
player setskill 0; - sure, does it really matter?
{player disableAI _x} foreach ["move","anim","target","autotarget"]; - yeap! but what does this do?
player setVariable ["BIS_noCoreConversations", true]; - Is done with a module, but i can add it, sure

as for DAC - I have recently started making all my missions HC, so the enemy is spawned and is under HC all the time.

[=VG= SemlerPDX]

http://community.bistudio.com/wiki/enableRadio
"Tank Spotted 200 Meters" = lame


*many things can be done either via module or script line. best to look at a good framework for examples, such as F2: http://ferstaberinde.com/f2/en/index.php?title=Main_Page

BIS High Command sux - that is why DAC is there. and believe it or not, it's easier to set up and use - if you learned HC, you can learn DAC. They are respectable AI.

enjoy Halloween - Have some pumpkin pie:

[suomikeizari]

Thanks! will put it in :)

Gotta look into it,
does it cause any FPS problems if AI count goes over 100,
or when player count goes over the magical number of 50?

[=VG= SemlerPDX]

Nope. No magical player cap either. never heard of that before, so no worries there. Any issues due to that were server side or due to excessive AI and bad spawn handling. Just look at A3 ALiVE - perfect way to handle dynamic combat.

[=VG= Gaz]

Castor =VG= LAN_WROTE ...

It's a shame that completing an objective is all that matters to you, but I suppose that level of realism doesnt appeal to everyone!

Dude. Not all that matters. Clearly not. Have you payed any actual attention to all the points vetala has brought forward?

Your training people. You need to realise people need someting to explain to them its done, we're not all perfect like some. The general idea behind having objectives in a mission is, well.. Sorry to break it to you mate, completing the actual damn objective? Like.. I'm sure thats what every single mission is about? Its not about free roaming otherwise its quite a monumental waste of everyones time.

You need to chillout with all this realism dude. Just join the damn forces if your that good, and want that much realism. Please, you just need to chillax with it.