Jump to content

NOTICE: Our Project Reality Demo / Tracker files are not getting uploaded here to the website.  We are working on the issue and expect it to be resolved within a few weeks.  The files are still being recorded, and will be provided to anyone including public players via direct request.  Send a message to (in order of availability) SemlerPDX, STARK, or m823us, with the date/time and map name, and we will provide you with the corresponding file.  Thank you all for your patience!

=VG= Skitalez

Noobs in CAS / TRANS

Recommended Posts

10 minutes ago, =VG= Skitalez said:

Can we start give a ban for wasting assets and crashing maps? Pls.

I think that would be good. quickly ban so that the game is not disturbed and you can unban them after the unbanrequest but then the player knows that he has to be careful from now on.
We have not only many new players but also many who know that nothing happens to them if they are wasting assets. then you fly cas and get the first warning that you are in the wrong squad, after the resign then the cas chopper get wasted twice and after the warnings/kicks you play 5 min inf to waste trans after this... ^^

If we warn about the first waste and ban the second, that would simplify much. a kick never really helps. the players come back online immediately and continue.

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@=VG= Skitalez Deliberate or excessive asset waste has always been an offence that players can be warned, kicked and banned for ;)

 

Many newer players enter the server these days (surprising, I know). Unfortunately, some of them will overestimate their skills and waste vehicles. In my experience, most players respond well if you tell them that this is a serious server and they need to practice elsewhere first. If they refuse to do so, or keep wasting, they are hintering gameplay and can be removed permanently. Players with a bad attitude don't need to return, but players with good intentions need to get a fair chance. Would we punish 2 newbies who try out the cobra and are actually good, but dont know about the quadcannons in each map yet? No, because we all started as those newbies. Becoming a good asset user requires some trial and error unfortunately, and not all of that can be learned offline.

 

They could apply for an unban yes, but it's very demotivating if you try your best but get banned because you were unlucky. Bans should, IMO, be kept reserved for the 'harsh criminals' and offenders without improvement.

 

The south-flying bug is unknown to people who never fly. Those who give it their first shot will not know and will possibly crash the server (I had a guy who did it yesterday, and he was a good dude who didnt know). We can't blame or punish people who didn't know, we can only inform them. If they get warned about waste and keep doing it, they can be kicked and banned like always. Simply banning someone to keep the game going seems like a bad idea though. Even our great pilots have days where they lose 2 birds in a row due to lagspikes or bad luck.

The only 'fair' solution for southflyers is for that bug to be fixed, which is why we're putting much effort into that right now. Players who intentionally fly south are identified quickly and banned. This happens very rarely.

 

I feel you though, it's annoying to deal with yet another waster or map crash at times. Unfortunately that's our job as an admin, to inform and improve the quality of life for all our players, and that begins with a fair chance. Inform them, warn them, remove them if necessary. If they will not learn, remove them permanently. That is how we've always done things.

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
52 minutes ago, Acro1 said:

Many newer players enter the server these days (surprising, I know). Unfortunately, some of them will overestimate their skills and waste vehicles. In my experience, most players respond well if you tell them that this is a serious server and they need to practice elsewhere first. If they refuse to do so, or keep wasting, they are hintering gameplay and can be removed permanently. Players with a bad attitude don't need to return, but players with good intentions need to get a fair chance. Would we punish 2 newbies who try out the cobra and are actually good, but dont know about the quadcannons in each map yet? No, because we all started as those newbies. Becoming a good asset user requires some trial and error unfortunately, and not all of that can be learned offline.

 

They could apply for an unban yes, but it's very demotivating if you try your best but get banned because you were unlucky. Bans should, IMO, be kept reserved for the 'harsh criminals' and offenders without improvement.

 

The south-flying bug is unknown to people who never fly. Those who give it their first shot will not know and will possibly crash the server (I had a guy who did it yesterday, and he was a good dude who didnt know). We can't blame or punish people who didn't know, we can only inform them. If they get warned about waste and keep doing it, they can be kicked and banned like always. Simply banning someone to keep the game going seems like a bad idea though. Even our great pilots have days where they lose 2 birds in a row due to lagspikes or bad luck.

The only 'fair' solution for southflyers is for that bug to be fixed, which is why we're putting much effort into that right now. Players who intentionally fly south are identified quickly and banned. This happens very rarely.

 

I feel you though, it's annoying to deal with yet another waster or map crash at times. Unfortunately that's our job as an admin, to inform and improve the quality of life for all our players, and that begins with a fair chance. Inform them, warn them, remove them if necessary. If they will not learn, remove them permanently. That is how we've always done things.

you're right and i see it the same way, but in this case (only in this one, not everything else) it is sometimes very tiring. So if there's one person who wastes choppers, then you can take your time and respond to him. but in the worst case, you have 3-4 freaks on the server that just wasting everything that is there and while you warned one, the next wasted a chopper. if you warn someone for wasting / stealing, nobody cares, and others do the same in that moment ... if you ban one of them, you get the attention of all players.

I also did not think of bans for someone who does not know where the AA is, but rather for people who barely manage to take off from the carrier, then be warned and resigned and immediately are sitting in the next chopper.

well, it's frustrating for new ones to get banned quickly but it's even more frustrating for everyone else when a handful of idiots or newbies disturb the game ...

we could also say on the loading page that newbies are not allowed to use airassets or something like that.

and stupidly said: 90% of people who do not respond to warnings and kicks, we do not need anyway. these are not team players but loners who play their own game and dont care about the rest of the game. of course you do not have to do that with players who understand or you can talk to.

Again: I'm completely with you that we should help new players rather than dull kick / ban them but on the other side you should behave yourself and take care when you're new somewhere. and I personally think it's better to "frustrate" a single person than the whole server gets frustrated.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, =VG= Fastjack said:

Temp bans

is there a temp ban?

I'm only for a ban because you can force the person to a conversation, which often does not work in the game.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

^What Acro1 said above is the answer of the day.

All points that needed to be said was covered in his reply.  Read, rinse and repeat if needed. :hi:

2 hours ago, Acro1 said:

@=VG= Skitalez Deliberate or excessive asset waste has always been an offence that players can be warned, kicked and banned for ;)

 

Many newer players enter the server these days (surprising, I know). Unfortunately, some of them will overestimate their skills and waste vehicles. In my experience, most players respond well if you tell them that this is a serious server and they need to practice elsewhere first. If they refuse to do so, or keep wasting, they are hintering gameplay and can be removed permanently. Players with a bad attitude don't need to return, but players with good intentions need to get a fair chance. Would we punish 2 newbies who try out the cobra and are actually good, but dont know about the quadcannons in each map yet? No, because we all started as those newbies. Becoming a good asset user requires some trial and error unfortunately, and not all of that can be learned offline.

 

They could apply for an unban yes, but it's very demotivating if you try your best but get banned because you were unlucky. Bans should, IMO, be kept reserved for the 'harsh criminals' and offenders without improvement.

 

The south-flying bug is unknown to people who never fly. Those who give it their first shot will not know and will possibly crash the server (I had a guy who did it yesterday, and he was a good dude who didnt know). We can't blame or punish people who didn't know, we can only inform them. If they get warned about waste and keep doing it, they can be kicked and banned like always. Simply banning someone to keep the game going seems like a bad idea though. Even our great pilots have days where they lose 2 birds in a row due to lagspikes or bad luck.

The only 'fair' solution for southflyers is for that bug to be fixed, which is why we're putting much effort into that right now. Players who intentionally fly south are identified quickly and banned. This happens very rarely.

 

I feel you though, it's annoying to deal with yet another waster or map crash at times. Unfortunately that's our job as an admin, to inform and improve the quality of life for all our players, and that begins with a fair chance. Inform them, warn them, remove them if necessary. If they will not learn, remove them permanently. That is how we've always done things.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

^ skit already mention everything needed to be said.

i always try to educate new players. i even make an effort to make a new squad just to teach them the basics. 
in this scenario when someone wants to learn how to fly i ask if they wanted to learn so i can teach them and tell them to move to a un-populated server with me so they can learn properly. 

sometimes we need to give them a chance (for the newbies atleast) so that our community will grow. we can just banned everyone who waste the assets. (believe me i hate it too when they do that) 
but if we ban them majority of this new players wont even bother to ask for a unban appeal and just lose interest in the game. 

that my opinion in the matter. :)

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think if ever 25 to 40 mins a little server message shows up saying that this is a serious server blah blah will help, and also if players were in squad I've seen deployment servers automatically warn players who are not in the squad. This let's them know that rules are strict here and admins do their job.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

(yea, I was trying to avoid making anyone read a long winded wall of text on this matter when Acro said plenty, and because I feel you all are already great Admins and well trained, too... but here goes anyway)

 

14 hours ago, =VG= Vanillapop said:

I think if ever 25 to 40 mins a little server message shows up saying that this is a serious server blah blah will help, and also if players were in squad I've seen deployment servers automatically warn players who are not in the squad. This let's them know that rules are strict here and admins do their job.

Sounds nice - If we have a large influx of new players and this is becoming difficult for you Admins to manage, and this could help you, we'd be more than happy to add a message regarding something along the lines of,
"This is not a training server - Learn to fly elsewhere!"

But like I said above, we already have a system in place for dealing with asset waste on a case-by-case basis.  Deal with the individual, not the issue.  We run a game where over time, every rule will get broken many, many times, and we can't stop people all at once, we must deal with the people who do it, at the time they do it.  It's frustrating, but that is the job that many of you have volunteered for.  You cannot let emotions enter into it.  If you banned three people in one week for flying so poorly they got warned, kicked, and then banned, you cannot get angry at the 4th person you see just because he crashed one aircraft - you have to evaluate him from start to finish, the hard way, like every player, and not assume it's "just another untrained pilot".

So many factors enter into it, from accidents to even hardware issues, and for some people only over a little time can you tell that someone definitely should not by flying on our server (yet) - for all the others, you have your system to fall back on:  if necessary, Warn - then Kick - and if needed, Ban.


___

Personal history, I was a PR pilot when I wasn't leading squads.  I could "park" a chopper in the sky and go to the refrigerator to get a beer, while my gunner took care of business (usually Raven800).  I didn't start that way, PR choppers are like a bowling ball balancing on a toothpick.  It took some time after initial training before I could "drive" a chopper down the street under cover of the buildings, etc. without killing everyone and the asset.  I didn't practice that on the server until I was a pro.  But I was always critical of any mistakes early on, and extremely embarrassed in the event of crashing and killing myself and a squad I was transporting, for example... was worried I'd get summarily judged and banned without being able to explain.  No one wants that.

 

That is what we try to avoid by giving people the benefit of the doubt.  By dealing with all matters on a case-by-case basis, as they come, and by the letter AND spirit of our server and community rules.  Pretty simple when you look at it like that.  It's because of those values that we'll be celebrating our 10th year doing this pretty soon.

 

 

17 hours ago, Condrad said:

^ skit already mention everything needed to be said.

i always try to educate new players. i even make an effort to make a new squad just to teach them the basics. 
in this scenario when someone wants to learn how to fly i ask if they wanted to learn so i can teach them and tell them to move to a un-populated server with me so they can learn properly. 

sometimes we need to give them a chance (for the newbies atleast) so that our community will grow. we can just banned everyone who waste the assets. (believe me i hate it too when they do that) 
but if we ban them majority of this new players wont even bother to ask for a unban appeal and just lose interest in the game. 

that my opinion in the matter. :)

 

No worries, but... Skit proposed something we already have a system for, which he has already well proven his ability to perform admirably, yet Acro1 replied with what I would have said, or m823us, or Melon, so that's why I said what I did about Acro1's reply.

If players are intentionally exploiting a system bug such as the Fly South crash, or wasting assets indiscriminately, they can be warned and/or banned on sight for the action if warranted.  Others fall into the category of Warn for the behavior, then Kick if aforementioned warnings are not followed, and finally a ban if they come back and keep doing the same shit.  Our PR Admins are tasked with noting names, identifying patterns, and enforcing server rules with confidence - but also learn when to let something go to see if it IS a habitual problem, or an isolated incident.

 

Skit, if you don't already do this, I'd be surprised, so if you are not already, please be assertive in game, but be cool, too.  Players can play the game the way it's intended, or they can play somewhere else, and if they're wasting assets and crashing maps intentionally or frequently through ignorance, they must be warned, kicked, and/or banned (and preferably in that order unless the situation dictates otherwise - we trust you, and all our Admins).  But take it one person at a time, please.



 

Off topic: @Condrad Again, don't worry about it, but the following statement means the opposite of what I feel you intended to write:

17 hours ago, Condrad said:

we can just banned everyone who waste the assets.

You used the word can instead of can't or cannot
 

I only speak one language, but I understand the difficulty involved.  It's okay, but you should be informed.  Just wanted to point that out to help you in the future.  Cheers!

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, =VG= SemlerPDX said:

 

Off topic: @Condrad Again, don't worry about it, but the following statement means the opposite of what I feel you intended to write:

You used the word can instead of can't or cannot
 

I only speak one language, but I understand the difficulty involved.  It's okay, but you should be informed.  Just wanted to point that out to help you in the future.  Cheers!

ohhh sorry about that Semler english isnt my 1st language. but atleast you get my point i think xD
yes yes all is good :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It can indeed be tiring. Sometimes you'll punish a teamkiller while someone else nine-elevens a Huey and a third guy is insulting everyone as 'dirty negros'. Moments like these are actually not so common if we think about it :) We notice them way more because that's how humans work. The key thing is indeed to keep thinking of individuals, not numbers. When 4 people are doing BS, it doesn't matter if you warn, kick or ban. Either action will show and spark a reaction. A ban will not make a troll realise his mistake sooner.  Pre-emptive banning ,even if done rarely, will appear very abusive. If there are 4 a-holes, we must treat them as individual a-holes that each deserve a separate observation and action (unless they coordinate trolling like SNG did).

 

Us humans tend to generalise and quantify. That's how we tick. It actually leads to misjudgement and even costs companies money (!). Being a PR admin lets us show that we overcome this fallacy by keeping a cool mind in situations where most players would forget the individual people and focus only on the numbers.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Some times ya just got to let the metal burn to save the troops, but saying that the sever is not for learning how to fly, 3 strikes and out : )  admin kill command. no permanent ban temp only, we need the body's to fill the sever. Then we can get fussy : ) 

On 10/11/2019 at 12:46 PM, Acro1 said:

we must treat them as individual

That's key noob by noob troll by troll. moron by moron...    

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×