Jump to content
=VG= Double_13

Smoke for bots

Recommended Posts

Amazing work!  Hope it performs well and brings a new level of realism and a new layer to tactics into COOP.  Thank you all very much for your hard work!! :drinks:

 

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So, for those callin TLDNR on the Blog, let's start spreading the SOP's now so we're ready when it comes out:
   If you throw smoke, wait a full 15 seconds for it to disperse before moving -- if you shoot smoke (UGL 40mm and variants) wait at least 1 second before moving

FTR, yes, this system will block blind fire through the smoke, it's the price to pay (and I bet it's worth it).  For once, concealment is also cover.  It's not only that they don't/can't "see" you, but they will be unable to score a shot on you due to an object in the way. Minding that, don't stand just anywhere in a cloud of smoke expecting to be invisible to the bots. :hi: 

edit:  @=VG= Double_13 Are trees and bushes next?  ;) j/k - thanks again! this rocks!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nice! It will make a lot of maps playable again. What about mortars though? I only saw grenades, 30mm and vehicle launchers mentioned..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, =VG= SemlerPDX said:

 


edit:  @=VG= Double_13 Are trees and bushes next?  ;) j/k - thanks again! this rocks!

Don’t think this is going to happen cus 1st it is not really a big issue and it actually makes Vietnam hard(ish) and most maps do not have that much vegetation  2nd it requires a lot of statics been redone. I am suppressed Arab said it will be added to 1.6 as every asset needs to be modded for it and every so kit in the game needs the new smoke grenade. 

 

@=VG= keed the enemy assets should get smoke launchers and use them but I am pushing to make them always thermal so it blocks both human and bot. For the mortars I shall check

  • Like 2
  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, =VG= keed said:

@=VG= Double_13 Mortars are blocking bot LOS too, confirmed by Arab in the blog post:

its not where if it is possible it is where if it would be added. Its a metric ton of work to get all the assets/kits covered 

I already mentioned huge flaws with the smoke over the discord.
example:
As the smoke blocks 100% incoming fire if one would to smoke up his asset he can be sure to not get any fire. This means that aslong your AAVP (or other asset with thermals) is smoked up you wont get shot. (kinda cheating in my eyes) 
To counter this I requested that ALL smoke is thermal smoke. This to prevent smoke camping and in all fairness the INF doesn't notice and the Assets will then only use smoke for true defense rather than camping. 

We shall see how the implementation of smoke will affect the gameplay and server stability. 

  • Like 2
  • Upvote 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, =VG= Double_13 said:

example:
As the smoke blocks 100% incoming fire if one would to smoke up his asset he can be sure to not get any fire. This means that aslong your AAVP (or other asset with thermals) is smoked up you wont get shot. (kinda cheating in my eyes) 
To counter this I requested that ALL smoke is thermal smoke. This to prevent smoke camping and in all fairness the INF doesn't notice and the Assets will then only use smoke for true defense rather than camping. 

I think you have a very great idea there.  Make sure you pass it along and get some support for it, it seems like the best compromise between functionality and ability to be exploited. :hi:

 

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 hours ago, =VG= Double_13 said:

example:
As the smoke blocks 100% incoming fire if one would to smoke up his asset he can be sure to not get any fire. This means that aslong your AAVP (or other asset with thermals) is smoked up you wont get shot. (kinda cheating in my eyes) 
To counter this I requested that ALL smoke is thermal smoke. This to prevent smoke camping and in all fairness the INF doesn't notice and the Assets will then only use smoke for true defense rather than camping. 

 

16 hours ago, =VG= SemlerPDX said:

I think you have a very great idea there.  Make sure you pass it along and get some support for it, it seems like the best compromise between functionality and ability to be exploited. :hi:

 

I agree it is a very good idea. As on deployment we are waiting for the smoke, so we know where to shoot. ;)

 

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well I am just glad that smoking will be healthy again and could save the lives of our soldiers on the battlefield! We will have to conduct studies and new tactics that will add the realism back again in PR. I know it is not easy, but will definatly change the game style again!

Make sure that we keep it up with the different colored smoke for drops and concealment.

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Note that the smoke might be used against you. 

 

I am already exploring the possibility of not giving ai blocking smoke to the new AI only assets (PRSP) this so they can shoot out their own deployed smoke. 

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've noticed over the last years in different BF2 Mods, that bots love it to blind human players with smoke when they can. 

That mostly happens with vehicles. I hope when we change our strategies they also do and use smoke for disguise and advanced movements. Boyss we will have much more fun now beating the almighty AI.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My only concerns are smoke spam, and/or using smoke as a tool to troll. Which already happens. This may or may not make it worse.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

^Agreed -- we will need to write up a rule about not throwing smoke into the line of fire of vehicles or infantry with the intention to disrupt engagements in an unwanted/undesired way.  Would be a repeated warnings sort of enforcement, only after repeated warnings would a kick be eligible.  Also, if used as a griefing tool, it would be grounds for insta-ban if needed to restore order to the server.  We will grant unbans so long as the individual was only guilty of ignoring warnings about misuse of smoke, and if they agree to follow the new smoke rules, will be unbanned.  Something like that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@=VG= SemlerPDX sounds like a good plan to me.

On 9/25/2018 at 12:43 PM, =VG= SemlerPDX said:

^Agreed -- we will need to write up a rule about not throwing smoke into the line of fire of vehicles or infantry with the intention to disrupt engagements in an unwanted/undesired way.  Would be a repeated warnings sort of enforcement, only after repeated warnings would a kick be eligible.  Also, if used as a griefing tool, it would be grounds for insta-ban if needed to restore order to the server.  We will grant unbans so long as the individual was only guilty of ignoring warnings about misuse of smoke, and if they agree to follow the new smoke rules, will be unbanned.  Something like that.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I wouldnt worry about spamming smoke,  u can do that now!!  Lets start talking about the AI already scoring head shots at range.  The upgrade, for the AI , gives THEM the advantage.  WTF is that.  Now we gotta bring shovels AND start smoking?  This is headed in the way wrong direction boyzzz.  I'm worried

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The ai targeting values are kinda ... at the moment and this causes the bots to only be effective on high difficulty. 

For example if the difficulty on the server is set to 90 and you drive your Humvee at full speed approx 1/12 rockets might hit you. Even if you stand still it is 1/4. 

By cranking up the bot difficulty the accuracy gets improved significantly to 1/4 and 1/1 on stationary. Well this poses the problem we have. 

While some guns where tweaked correctly others are not such as the scorpion used by taliban is a 90% headshot gun while the g3 of the mec is 50% (not real numbers but example) With all pleasure you can go into modding all these settings but you quickly find out it is a metric ton of work that requires  testing on a live server as bots fighting each other is not a really efficient way of testing. 

 

To the shovel. It has sadly been removed already but I am trying to find the damage value to make it so you can shovel it with one person. I am already finding the codes letting you leave sparking assets but further testing is required. 

 

For smoke now it is a huge huge huge cheat for humans. I mentioned only that the enemy vehicle smoke might not be anti bot so if they deploy the smoke they can fight back. The thermals is to block the human campers and that’s it? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, GRNANDGLD said:

Lets start talking about the AI already scoring head shots at range.  The upgrade, for the AI , gives THEM the advantage.  WTF is that.  Now we gotta bring shovels AND start smoking?  This is headed in the way wrong direction boyzzz.  I'm worried

 

I disagree. The teamwork of digging FOBs and the tactical value of using smoke adds more realism and makes the game slow down and more immersive.

  • Upvote 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, GRNANDGLD said:

I wouldnt worry about spamming smoke,  u can do that now!!  Lets start talking about the AI already scoring head shots at range.  The upgrade, for the AI , gives THEM the advantage.  WTF is that.  Now we gotta bring shovels AND start smoking?  This is headed in the way wrong direction boyzzz.  I'm worried

 

2 hours ago, =VG= HaterOneActual said:

I disagree. The teamwork of digging FOBs and the tactical value of using smoke adds more realism and makes the game slow down and more immersive.

i see it like hater. where is the problem if you need 3 people to shovel? I must honestly say I was a bit frustrated at first because I died much more often and it was much harder to create fobs but that's far more realistic for me. And after getting used to the degree of hardness, that's not so bad either. so I learned to properly cover and give targeted shots as AR. I think it is good now if you can not place a fob immediately everywhere and need three people to build it and a few more to cover because you can not do it otherwise. this is war, not a birthday party;)

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Impressive work and a massive congratulations to all the team that worked on this feature and other fantastic updates.

For a game engine that has been around for such a long time it is inspiring and impressive to see continued success in moving the goal post and pushing the frontiers of software development, while having fun and looking cool at the same time.

Onwards and upwards!!

  • Like 2
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Great work double...We are truly blessed... but maybe the problems is the kits being limited at spawn...first 2...medics and no faking shovel ,but smoke like Mickey Rourke.  Then the poor bastards got to cover the rest of you bullet magnets while you dig stuff.  If everyone gets to smoke then eveyone gets to DIG damit!!  Shovels for the medics, I say.  Problem solved.?

 

<<<<smoker....ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×