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Jersans

Need help, PC died.

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40 minutes ago, 0100011000101 said:

 

therefore you should look what you have for a ram and how much it is ... if your pc was 8 years old, the memory will not fit into a new computer or be so slow that he will slow down the entire computer.
in the picture is on the sticker a line that contains "2gb pc2-6400u-666".
a similar line would have to be on your memory.

EB6-000003-master.jpg

When I am at home I can look for a computer but I usually leave something like this for a few weeks and compare because otherwise you automatically make mistakes somewhere or spend too much money.

Don't know much about this stuff but I've got two types. 

1.) 2x Kingston HyperX Blu 

2.) 2x Corsair XMS3 DDR3 4GB (2x2GB)

They always worked perfectly. Never an issue and they still look brand new.

Are those okay? 

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1 hour ago, =VG= SemlerPDX said:

Those are some decent prices compared to what I saw on that site.  This setup will give you a little future proofing, you'll be able to play current modern games at med-high (if not ultra-high) with that CPU/GFX card combo, and that is a very decent MoBo but it is a model designed for multiple graphics cards as opposed to other configurations that may have more options (but less GFX card slots) such as NVMe (which that board lacks).  As it sits, this is a very affordable, very capable setup and good for the money.  You'll have PR at max settings easily getting 100+ FPS, that much is for sure.  Probably 40-60+ FPS in something like GTA:V depending on gfx settings in-game; same with Arma titles.

Thanks Sem! I will order them, I don't have to pay until I pick it up and I can change my order at any time and even return them within 14 days for a full refund regardless of my issue with them. Apperantly that is the law here. 

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1 hour ago, =Wolf= Jersans said:

new processor comes with a new cooler

Unless that cooler is some actual brand name add-on cooler bundled with that CPU (with a normal retail value $30+) you cannot use it.  Almost all CPU's are sold with a shitty little CPU cooler, some tiny fan connected to the worlds smallest heatsink just so the chip could potentially operate if installed on a motherboard right out of the box.  You always want to invest at least $30 on an after-market cooler with a decent sized fan and fair sized heatsink, and then apply a name brand thermal paste (like Arctic Silver) as opposed to any included paste that may come with the CPU or the Heatsink/Fan.

1 hour ago, 0100011000101 said:

For old programs like pr, it does not matter how many "cores" a processor has because pr can only use one

This is a nul argument here.  We do not need to worry about any of this, particularly with regards to PR.  ANY modern Desktop CPU of the Intel persuasion, with multiple cores, will kick the ass of any old game like PR even though, admittedly it could not take advantage of the multi-core capabilities of the CPU.  A single core off a modern multi-core PC can handle ANY game from 2004 (mods/updates irrelevant), unless it's the lowest end model of a CPU that is made (like some entry level mobility CPU).

Get a modern Intel multi-core CPU, the most expensive you can afford.  The GPU (graphics card) you buy should cost about the same.  The MoBo may cost a little as a third to a half of the CPU/GPU.  These factors dictate which level of performance you can afford with your budget.  Drop your budget onto the CPU/GPU/MoBo minus the cost of RAM.  So, you say $500 ... spend $200 on a CPU, spend $200 on a GPU, spend $100 on a MoBo...  you'll need another $60+ for a set of RAM, 2x4GB is enough to get you started because:

RAM is so nice, you can buy it over time... Start with the entry level you can afford, usually 60-100 for a pair of 4GB RAM for a total of 8GB, and later you could do that again when you can afford it (for a new total of 16GB, more than enough for modern multi-tasking such as streaming and also recording while gaming while watching some YouTube and also leaving 5 or 6 other programs minimized cuz you can't be arsed to close them)

 

If I were you, I'd try to budget more like $700-$750, because around those price points, on that site you linked, it seems the good GPU's and CPU's are around $220-250 (converted) and even up to $300, meaning by our example, you'd spend ~$250 on CPU, ~$250 on GPU and ~$120 on a MoBo

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7 minutes ago, =Wolf= Jersans said:

Cheers mate! But I'm a total failure when it comes to PC components. Can't even find my memory cards :(

If the RAM stickers are lacking in good info, look up the motherboard you have instead, find out what kind of RAM it takes, boom - you got your answer

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You say you're inept at all of this, so I'll give a great tip:  You save money by teaching yourself and buying parts bit by bit (and it's rewarding!) -- If you cannot, you save money by buying a set or assembled setup by not breaking things or buying the wrong components.

In the end, if you want to get into the whole thing, you have to have a passion to both save money and to learn how to put all these parts together without frying something.  You have to be able to find answers where none exist, and be able to Google what you need for info or instructions.  Most every Motherboard I've ever worked on had some original manual online in PDF form that I could find to get a complete map of the MoBo and every connection on it, as well as specs.  Additionally, YouTube is a wealth of knowledge with the How To's but you gotta go for the more professional ones, or it's just a video of some jacktard taking apart his PC to some bad Techno music.

You can do it, if you try, but you have to put in the effort to read and learn a few things.  Here is THE place to go to start that, and it's worth it to take the time to educate yourself rather than rely on others to decide what YOU need, because we are not you:
CPUs: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/best-cpus,3986.html
GPUs: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/best-gpus,4380.html
Motherboards: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/best-motherboards,3984.html

The Roundup articles are a great place to find info about parts in a single specific category: http://www.tomshardware.com/articles/round-up/

*Forgot to add the very, very helpful "Build Your Own" sections, check it out for some variable price builds with top parts: http://www.tomshardware.com/t/build-your-own/feature/

In the end, you can basically swap out the highlighted word ("CPU") for anything you are looking to learn about because parts change every year and you gotta keep up with what's new:
toms best of.PNG

 

Great Tip #2: Save money by buying last years parts (or even the year before), sacrificing a little bit of future proofing to get higher end parts inside a tight budget.

 

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14 minutes ago, =VG= SemlerPDX said:

This is a nul argument here

 

lol,

So I did not want to say that he should look for a single core, but that he should not buy an i7 with 8 cores and less frequenzy, if he had more of four cores with higher frequency ...

 

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Last thing I want to do is shit on opinions, I very much agree about the speed vs. cores on a budget as needed.  But I will say that it's not groundless to state that Intel and AMD have flip-flopped on leading the industry with their hardware over the years, that much is a fact.  It is the exact same with graphics cards, between nVidia and ATI, with certain rollouts, they have at times jumped ahead of the other by a year or so, dictating that gamers wishing to invest in that year's best would choose one company or the other.  After that, anyone basing their purchase choice between AMD/Intel or ATI/nVidia on anything else is basically losing out, or at the very least, not putting their money out for the best return at the time.  As it sits today, in the current market (and last years as well), Intel is leading the CPU market by a decent margin, pushing capabilities to the limit and the price point for performance models is such that any price savings by going with AMD is also a performance loss.  nVidia is similarly leading the graphics card technology at this time as well, with the new 1080's markedly clocking in higher (as comparably as possible given the different tech) than the current leading ATI cards, and though another flip-flop may be coming in the near future, it's still the case that the best money for performance is currently on nVidia, where any savings by going with ATI would also be measurably less performance as we see it in modern games.

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Not confident in putting together your own PC or shopping for compatible components? Leave it to professionals.

Visit one of the PC builders sites for your country. They usually have range of budget options with all components compatible with each other, and usually charge $100-$150 for assembly and shipping.

I built 2 PCs in my life, but I started by getting a professionally built rig.

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7 minutes ago, =VG= SemlerPDX said:

Intel is leading the CPU market by a decent margin, pushing capabilities to the limit and the price point for performance models is such that any price savings by going with AMD is also a performance loss.

threadripper.

Of course, intel has retraced with the i9 but there is no noticeable performance difference in practice. You can now argue that intel here and there is some % faster, that's amd but elsewhere synonymous. always depends on the overall configuration and what you ever used to test the speed.

but even before threadripper that's not quite true. Unfortunately, Intel has the better reputation.

with quicksync the rendering of h264 + with intel is 4 to 10 times faster than with amd. the amd has more cores so effects calculations, 4k cutting projects and stuff like this is faster with amd. the statement intel is better / faster is not true. if you test appropriate then both have their advantages and disadvantages. depending on what you want to do with it.
and above all, what speed do you measure and in relation to what? a benchmark in cinebench just tells you how fast your computer is at cinema 4d and not that he has the same values in maya.

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just get a ryzen 5 cpu and any am4 botherboard, your ram and graphics card should be fine and this build is pretty good for playing modern game too, if you need later on you can upgrade the graphics card and have a killer pc, and looking into a ssd is not a bad idea either. It should only cost you about 3 or 400 if you just get a motherboard and the cpu, id just use the same power supply, ram and graphics card until later when you save up and have money to upgrade those components.

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2 hours ago, =Wolf= Jersans said:

Are those okay? 

yes, but not for a modern computer;) you need DDR4 with a clockrate that your mobo supports. you can use ram with a lower clockrate with is cheaper but that makes your computer slower. Similar to a lower clock rate of the cpu. So it makes no sense to spend a lot on the cpu and save money on the ram. unless you will upgrade quickly. 8gb minimum, 16gb nice, 32gb make fun, 64+ gb heaven...

21 minutes ago, Xenalite said:

usually charge $100-$150 for assembly and shipping.

if your computer costs 2000€, yes. if assembly, delivery and support make up one quarter of the total costs, no. the 150 € rather stuck in cpu and memory.

Only the fan assembly on the cpu, I would eventually leave a professional if the cpu was very expensive or you have not done it before. it's not that hard, but you can overheat your cpu if you do it wrong. Everything else can be done by yourself and is (relatively) harmless.

19 minutes ago, Vanillapop said:

ust get a ryzen 5 cpu and any am4 botherboard, your ram and graphics card should be fine and this build is pretty good for playing modern game too, if you need later on you can upgrade the graphics card and have a killer pc, and looking into a ssd is not a bad idea either.

something like tihs was in my mind... although nothing generally speaks against an intel ... But that's why I have responded to semlerPDX, which is right with everything else in his post.

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10 hours ago, 0100011000101 said:

and above all, what speed do you measure and in relation to what? a benchmark in cinebench just tells you how fast your computer is at cinema 4d and not that he has the same values in maya.

So true, and you have many great points.  Always best to do your benchmarks with the actual programs you are going to use... the benchmarking softwares seem to only be of use if you consistently test with and compare results from the exact same softwares in different configurations, but then there's no way to know how that applies to PC gaming, specifically with the games YOU own and want to play.

Personally, I prefer to fire up games for my benchmarking, and to try some rendering in AE, Premiere, or even Sony Vegas.  GTA V is modern enough to push a gaming PC to it's limits so it's in-game for that one, but if I was playing a lot of Arma, I'd use that for the benchmarking because even though it's not as optimized as other games, you will still be able to gauge the raw performance of a PC better when actually IN the environment you expect it to perform in.  If I'm testing speed of an add-on SSD, I use a game like Civilization V where the time it takes loading a save game is based on the size of the game (so a late game save on a large/huge map = longer load times).  I did some game boot speed tests recently to see if it was faster to load from my SSD Raid-0 volume or from the add-on SSD that runs most of my programs.  I used Kerbal Space Program (with over 3000 plugins from 64 mods) -- only gained 12 seconds (on a 2 and a half minute boot normally) so I decided to keep it off the Raid-0 for space reasons (space space, not Space space ;) ) .

TLDNR; don't use benchmark software, just fire up your most intensive game or application and give it a run - note the FPS in high action (specifically the LOWEST value) and/or note the time to run an application or to load one depending on what you're testing.

 

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10 hours ago, 0100011000101 said:

yes, but not for a modern computer;) you need DDR4 with a clockrate that your mobo supports. you can use ram with a lower clockrate with is cheaper but that makes your computer slower. Similar to a lower clock rate of the cpu. So it makes no sense to spend a lot on the cpu and save money on the ram. unless you will upgrade quickly. 8gb minimum, 16gb nice, 32gb make fun, 64+ gb heaven...

Yes well I can do this in a future upgrade right. I should have 16GB for for now and in the future I can update to 32GB correct?

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Little reason to have more than 8 GB of high-frequency memory. No reason to have more than 16 GB. It is the reason why modern motherboards rarely come with more than 2 memory slots, especially for DDR4.

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4 hours ago, Xenalite said:

Little reason to have more than 8 GB of high-frequency memory. No reason to have more than 16 GB. It is the reason why modern motherboards rarely come with more than 2 memory slots, especially for DDR4.

Well I learned the difference between DDR3 and DDR4 today. Basically don't order a motherboard with DDR4 if you have DDR3 memory. The saga continues... 

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20 minutes ago, =Wolf= Jersans said:

Well I learned the difference between DDR3 and DDR4 today. Basically don't order a motherboard with DDR4 if you have DDR3 memory. The saga continues... 

In my eyes, it makes no sense to choose a NEW computer for your old memory. then look on ebay for a used one.

if you want it really cheap take something like this:

  • Intel Core i3 7320 2x 4.10GHz So.1151 BOX ~145€
  • ASRock Z370 Pro Intel Z370 So.1151 Dual Channel DDR4 ATX Retail ~100€
  • 8GB G.Skill RipJaws V schwarz DDR4-3200 DIMM CL16 Dual Kit ~90€

*350€

you do not need a cooler because the cpu is boxed and has a cooler, but you can not overclock. A graphic card is onboard.  i dont know if pr works well on it,  but you can buy a 1050ti in a few months. same for the memory. the board can take faster memory and a faster cpu so you can upgrade later.

but this is really low budget and I would not buy that.

 

I would rather tend to something like that:

 

 

 

 

 

 
  • 8GB G.Skill RipJaws V schwarz DDR4-3200 DIMM CL16 Dual Kit € 97,91
  • AMD Ryzen 5 1600X 6x 3.60GHz So.AM4 WOF € 168,75
  • ASRock Fatal1ty AB350 Gaming K4 AMD B350 So.AM4 Dual Channel DDR4 ATX € 88,85
  • 4GB Asus GeForce GTX 1050 Ti Aktiv PCIe 3.0 x16 € 172,04
  • + a be quiet cpu-fan till 30-100€

*560€

you could also take an AMD Ryzen 5 2400G 4x 3.60GHz So.AM4. it has a graphic onboard, but I do not know how good it is and the cpu is a bit weaker because it has only 4 cores. for this you could possibly buy the graphics card  later.

But please do not just buy these things but inform you before that if everything really fits together and if that is optimal. I do not want to blame if you are dissatisfied afterwards ... you can do more wrong than right in this direction, so take this only to guide you a bit.

 

5 hours ago, Xenalite said:

No reason to have more than 16 GB. It is the reason why modern motherboards rarely come with more than 2 memory slots, especially for DDR4.

thats not true. on a mini-atx-board you have only 2 memory banks because there is no more space and it would be more expensive. my new computer has 8 (!) memory banks. 16 gb + in the dualchannel are definitely noticeable. 16 gb is slowly becoming the standard ... it is only a matter of time and 16 gb is the minimum.

with 16 gb , you could try turning off a swap file. if the system is stable, you should also have a slight performance boost.

 

 

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12 hours ago, Xenalite said:

Little reason to have more than 8 GB of high-frequency memory. No reason to have more than 16 GB.

(beg to differ!!) There is good reason to have more than 8GB on a Gaming PC, some modern games like more than 4GB of RAM (tossing GTA:V out again as a good example here), and when I personally made the jump from 8GB to 16GB, I had much more overhead when running my PC under full load (GTA:V on High settings while recording and streaming, and watching some Netflix in the background, with a few browsers open and other crap I was too lazy to shut down).  Basically, it's all about how you use your computer:  if you do very little multi-tasking, you may never take advantage of larger RAM capacities, but as it is one of the more affordable parts of a PC, and most PC's come with 4 DIMM slots, you want to decide what maximum RAM you would like to have, divide that by 4 and get sticks of that size (you want 32GB RAM, get 4x 8GB RAM sticks... buy 2 to start, buy another 2 down the road when you can afford it)

There are also plenty applications for a PC Gamer to have more than 16GB RAM, particularly for performance, additional RAM can be used as part of a RAM Drive that can have anything from parts of the OS to an entire game running off the RAM (instead of HDD/SSD) resulting in much faster load times and minimizing times of "load from disk", etc.  I know Double_13 uses a 32GB RAM system, and takes advantage of that extra RAM for use as a RAM Drive (the entire PR Game can easily fit and run from his RAM) for some performance gain.

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4 hours ago, =VG= SemlerPDX said:

(beg to differ!!) There is good reason to have more than 8GB on a Gaming PC, some modern games like more than 4GB of RAM (tossing GTA:V out again as a good example here), and when I personally made the jump from 8GB to 16GB, I had much more overhead when running my PC under full load (GTA:V on High settings while recording and streaming, and watching some Netflix in the background, with a few browsers open and other crap I was too lazy to shut down).  Basically, it's all about how you use your computer:  if you do very little multi-tasking, you may never take advantage of larger RAM capacities, but as it is one of the more affordable parts of a PC, and most PC's come with 4 DIMM slots, you want to decide what maximum RAM you would like to have, divide that by 4 and get sticks of that size (you want 32GB RAM, get 4x 8GB RAM sticks... buy 2 to start, buy another 2 down the road when you can afford it)

There are also plenty applications for a PC Gamer to have more than 16GB RAM, particularly for performance, additional RAM can be used as part of a RAM Drive that can have anything from parts of the OS to an entire game running off the RAM (instead of HDD/SSD) resulting in much faster load times and minimizing times of "load from disk", etc.  I know Double_13 uses a 32GB RAM system, and takes advantage of that extra RAM for use as a RAM Drive (the entire PR Game can easily fit and run from his RAM) for some performance gain.

exactly.

What you should not forget, laptops, onboard graphics cards and even some pci-express cards use the main memory.

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Well today I gave up. I bought a DDR4 motherboard and memory and it's fuck it. So I'm 150$ over budget. Wish me luck.

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And she's dead.... What the fuck am I doing wrong... I placed the processor according to instructions. Connected the whole thing and not a peep. Nothing. Just a little green light on the motherboard... What the fuck?

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you mean you have a new mobo, ram and a cpu and they do not work?
then it can only be the power supply. that's the old one ...
but if you did not insert a memory, for example, your computer will not start.

 

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Well I don't know what to do anymore....

Basically it doesn't do anything. Just a small green light on the motherboard. Even the power supply isn't doing anything.

I don't get it. I did everything according to the manual.

 

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1 hour ago, 0100011000101 said:

you mean you have a new mobo, ram and a cpu and they do not work?
then it can only be the power supply. that's the old one ...
but if you did not insert a memory, for example, your computer will not start.

 

Yeah it must be the power supply. I mean even if I made a mistake which I'm sure I didn't the fan from the power supply should do something. Right? 

Anyway guys - quick lesson from Jersans. If you are not a PC expert don't try to fix your PC just have it repaired or buy a new one. Factually I could have a had a brand new PC by now and all I needed to do was connect the hard drives. 

*Mental note* 

"Next time listen to @Xenalite next time just listen." 

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