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=VG= Kavelenko

BMS Challenges of the week

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Challenge 1:

There are four types of takeoffs possible with the Harrier: VTO (Vertical Take-Off); STO (Short Take-Off); RVTO (Rolling Vertical Take-Off) and CTO (Conventional Take-Off). A competent pilot will be deemed to be one who can perform all four of these, and will receive his Harrier Pilot wings.

Challenge 2:

Must be able to land the Harrier vertically at an airbase or suitable land based LZ. This must be done using the technique outlined on page 104 of the BMS Manual. Completion earns the pilot the title of Naval Aviator.

Challenge 3:

Catapult take off from a carrier and land using the arresting system. Earns the Title of Naval Flight Officer.

Challenge 4:

VTOL on a moving Carrier, which means taking off vertically as well as landing vertically, according to the BMS manual. (p.104) Earns a competent pilot, title of Top Gun.

Good luck. I need evidence too!

Note: Each challenge must be done consecutively, in other words you cannot claim to be Top Gun without having completed Challenges 1-3 previously.

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If I can do 1, 2 and 4 in one go with the DCS Harrier, do I win the upcoming Hornet module, so I can do number 3 on the first try? :D

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13 hours ago, Brain said:

If I can do 1, 2 and 4 in one go with the DCS Harrier, do I win the upcoming Hornet module, so I can do number 3 on the first try? :D

Ummm let me look up the rule book Brain....... Nope. Sorry Its not in the BMS manual. Man we need some standards here... Are you another DCS defector? We've had a few lately. :P

Plus we don't want players attempting these dangerous maneuvers on their Sony Play stations or Sega Megadrives!

 

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I'm fairly sure he means it should follow proper SOP from the manual, and all angles and heights should be within acceptable margins according to the spirit of the lesson (don't cut corners, keep it professional), and not that every number should be exactly the same at all time intervals.  Even in real life, every carrier landing is slightly different due to the challenge of a moving platform on windy, choppy seas.  Perform in a way that would not get a real pilot fired - that's probably a good rule ;)

 

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4 hours ago, sandstorm said:

Does it have to be done exactly like the manual. As in all the exact angles ,  heights etc.

Yes, pretty much that is what the challenge is about, and its not an easy one as pilots will find out. Most will manage challenge 1 without too much difficulty. Challenge 3 will be a cinch for those who can already land and take off from carriers but unfortunately you cannot progress to that one unless you mastered the Vertical landing in Challenge 3.

Personally I prefer to hover with 90% nozzle angle to give me a horizontal AOA but I'm going to need to change that to the achieve the nose up angle with nozzles at 80%.

This is all about really controlling your Harrier in VSTOL. It may seem impossible to begin with but practice makes perfect.

There is a Harrier manual that Static posted here that gives a lot of detail about the real Harrier, that is very helpful in understanding what is happening with the jet during transitions. Vertically landing a Harrier is difficult enough but to do it within the parameters outlined in the manual requires more skill and control, doing it on a Carrier is next to impossible especially with side winds.

If it were easy "ANYONE" could do it.

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3 hours ago, sandstorm said:

Ok ,so manual says set flaps to 40 , how do I do that. I am stuck. When I get in it says flaps are at 22 ?

I don't think you can change that value anyway Sandstorm, they're either down or they're not. You've got two modes for flaps one named Cruise and the other STOL. I use the latter for take-offs, there's also another flaps control on that panel's lower left to lock the flap position or not.

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This is a guy in DCS doing a carrier landing.

Compare that to the real guys who do this for a living:

This is how I'd like us to do it in BMS but its going to take a lot of practice to get it sorted to this level. Don't give up guys that's the standard.

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On 1/22/2018 at 6:46 PM, =VG= Kavelenko said:

Challenge 1:

There are four types of takeoffs possible with the Harrier: VTO (Vertical Take-Off); STO (Short Take-Off); RVTO (Rolling Vertical Take-Off) and CTO (Conventional Take-Off). A competent pilot will be deemed to be one who can perform all four of these, and will receive his Harrier Pilot wings.

Ok this is what I've done for Challenge 1 so far, I'm not happy with the VTO take-off with nozzles at 80 deg, it looks real ugly. 90 deg is much nicer.

 

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Nice one. Ok so now I know it does not have to be word for word like the manual I will give it a go. Kavelenko... awaiting the vertical landing...

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The Vertical Landing should be based on the guidelines outlined on page 104-105. None of this nose down hovering shit we see in PR, I wanna see proper controlled Vertical landing within the allowed parameters. Also there's not a huge amount of detail in the BMS manual but there should be enough for this exercise.

For the Carrier based VTOL I'm happy to see you land on the carrier in the same fashion as the Marine pilot did, that seems to be the way a lot them do it in real life. They pull up to the side of the carrier and maneuver sideways over the deck. Seems like a reasonable way to do it.

One of the reasons I like the Harrier so much is that it is so difficult to control in VSTOL, you get the impression you're only seconds away from disaster if you lose concentration, or don't keep an eye on your AOA, nozzle positions, and throttle control. You're not going to get the same challenge from landing an F-16. Landing your first Harrier VTOL is just awesome; performing the maneuver consistently is just showing off!!

Anyways good luck and have fun doing it!

The link to NATOPS FLIGHT MANUAL NAVY MODEL AV--8B/TAV--8B 161573 AND UP AIRCRAFT manual is still available on Static's post here:

 

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Excellent Take Offs Sandstorm, very smooth and controlled.

To complete the first Challenge 1 you need to complete the STO version as well. I'd consider your RTVO a short take off that's virtually the same as my STO but check out my RVTO at 3:53. The only difference really is that I set my nozzles to 70% which means you're off the ground after 15 Feet, should be no problem for you from what I  can see.

I see you managed to use the catapult ok, and therefore you worked out that you need to call the Tower and "request taxi" to hook up the Cat.

The hook can be lowered and raised in the Harrier, the control is on the left front panel, and it has its own warning light which sits below the landing gear warning lights. Red is up, and green is down.

The hook itself is not visible like it is on the F-18 but its definitely there. If you're having trouble hooking up to the arresting gear, try making a call to the Tower for permission to land, and also check to see that your hook is down by checking the four landing lights, the 4th one of the diamond being the hook, that should be green along with the other three lights for the landing gear.

Some guys in BMS call the tower with extra information like, "Jump 1-1, Request Autonomous Approach, hook down, three green".

Here's an old video I did to help people do the ramp-start in the Harrier, also catapult (11:24) and arresting gear landing (16:55), it definitely works.

 

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4 hours ago, Jersans said:

How do you do this stuff? 

First you blindly memorize buttons and the order to push them just to get in the air with your buddies, then it starts to make sense and you study the systems individually and how they operate, then you just keep flying and build on successes while learning from failures, watching youtube vids at work and then playing at home. lol

BMS and most combat flight sims are difficult cuz it's the real deal, but remember: the real deal was designed by humans to fly in an efficient and intuitive manner regarding controls, so it's really not that hard once you jump into it.  Best tip - view all of those buttons you see in the cockpit as belonging to separate sections, realizing that some sections get switched in the beginning and ignored throughout the rest of the flight, which really helps a person to not get overwhelmed by the 1.3 million buttons and switches in one of these fully modeled cockpits.

:hi:

 

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@Kavelenk , My STO was done as per the Manual with 40 on nozzle. So do I need to redo it?. I will try the Carrier landing again as I could never get the hook down and when I landed I just fell off the end. Is there a keyboard short cut for the harrier hook and how do I know if it is down ?

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1 hour ago, sandstorm said:

@Kavelenk , My STO was done as per the Manual with 40 on nozzle. So do I need to redo it?. I will try the Carrier landing again as I could never get the hook down and when I landed I just fell off the end. Is there a keyboard short cut for the harrier hook and how do I know if it is down ?

 

On 1/22/2018 at 6:46 PM, =VG= Kavelenko said:

Challenge 1:

There are four types of takeoffs possible with the Harrier: VTO (Vertical Take-Off); STO (Short Take-Off); RVTO (Rolling Vertical Take-Off) and CTO (Conventional Take-Off). A competent pilot will be deemed to be one who can perform all four of these, and will receive his Harrier Pilot wings.

I only counted three of the above required takeoffs in your video, your last one is using the Carrier catapult which is not part of Challenge 1. You did the STO correctly according to the manual but named it RVTO in your video, I think that's what happened. So you need to do the RTVO.

Regarding your question about the hook. Did you read my last comments above? If you're using the FULL BMS key file the shortcut keys should be Ctrl + K -  Hook Sw Tog

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