=VG= TEDF

PR COOP Server Changes

45 posts in this topic

23 minutes ago, =VG= TEDF said:

The biggest issue in COOP atm is the amount of assets available on both sides. An issue easily solvable if the COOP community was given free hands to modify the maps based on the playerbase needs, but unfortunately most of those tools have been ripped from us over the course of latest updates. (yes I'm taking the piss on devs. Sue me). If the files weren't blocked by every imaginable "code" or whatever check system, we could easily increase spawn times of assets on human side, force the bots to spawn on the foward flags, change cap orders etc.

One thing that has been discussed every now and then is to reduce the slots on the server to 30 or so and increase the bot count by the extra slots recieved. Unfortunately in my opinion it would only end up with less inf being on the field and more assets raping against the bots on human side. Again, something that could be fixed, but oh well.

 Why can't you change the asset spawn times and stuff?

It always has been and still is entirely possible to do everything you mentioned. Don't know why you'd want to change cap orders though.

We've played around with the bot and player numbers before and found that the current count worked best for both high pop and low pop times.

You can only ever have a max of 48 bots on the enemy team without bots on the player side too.

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So far the spawn time changes that I've tried on the test server have ended up either not working or forcing you to CTD after loading in. The same with the flag ownership changes and swapping 1 man assets with 2 man assets. The caporder change was just an example.

EDIT : Error from my part. flags seem to work. Not sure why it didn't work earlier, propably some stupid typo somewhere. Disregard those lines on last post.

Jup everything besides removing the 1 man assets works and I'm a dumbo.  I'll be adding some ticket and respawn changes to the test tomorrow.

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Can someone post our bot seetings, please?

What is our TeamratioPercentage?

Botcount?

 

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To verify what ted said

i just runnext in khami because it is unplayable 

8 man tank

3 man trans

4 man cas

4 man apc 

3 man inf 

 

i found it so redicolous people just waited in main for their assets to respawn rather then playing together. So I simply runnext. 

 I highly suggest ALL one man assets on large maps been removed. We still have plenty of other assets and removing these one man will prevent everybody hogging in the assets. If this is possible/allowed is a different question or else I suggest to put the second server behind password so the people who do wish challenging maps can play their 

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Uploaded additional changes to the server. Again all of this is temporary and will be reverted in a few days.

General : 

1. Reduced tickets for bluefor on some of the maps

Muttrah : 

1. Bots are now more aggressive on their deployment

2. Slightly increased time it takes to cap docks. Reduced time it takes to capture ECC & WCC but increased time it takes to neutralise them.

3. Increased TOW HMMWV Respawn time slightly

4. Increased Cobra respawn time on STD to 10 minutes

EDIT : Looks good so far

90UAUnq.png

Khamisiyah : 

1. Bots now spawn on bunkers & chem factory

2. ZU guns now respawn after a while

3. Increased f15 respawn time to 10 minutes

4. Bots now focus more on defending/spawning on the flags rather than going for the vehicles

Kashan : 

1. Bots are now more aggressive on their deployment and should be able to capture both bunkers in reasonable time, provided that human side doesn't rush the hills before village is captured

2. Bots now get AAs once they capture bunkers

3. Increased jet respawn times to 10 minutes.

ALT : 

1. Removed 1 man tanks and reduced the total number of tanks to 2, with one of them being delayed.

2. removed one of the f16s

STD : 

1. Reduced total number of tanks from 12 to 4. All tanks have increased respawn times. All one man tanks have been removed.

2. Reduced respawn time on bot aircrafts

Pavlovsk : 

1. Bots are now more aggressive on their deployment

2. Decreased ZU gun respawn times slightly

ALT : 

1. Increased time it takes to capture west beach fort so the bots would have a chance to fight over it before the 2 man tank squad captures it.

2. increased TOW HMMWV respawn time slightly

STD : 

1. Increased harrier respawn time to 10 minutes.

2. Increased time it takes to neutralise West Beach Fort so the bots would have a chance to defend it properly.

 

 

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could these changes be added to the second or third server so others could continue the work on them?

Recently I have spoken with a few others that might be interesserend in further improvement of the server in the hope these changes can then be pushed to an official update. However it would be nice to push these changes on the third or second server.

 

I have been receiving help from fastjack with information pending how to "fix"some of the maps and how to get the bots to be more lethal. This in the method that it only affect multiplayer layers and not singleplayer. This to bypass/fufull the PR requirement that every map needs to be playable in singleplayer. If more and others are interressted in these changes hopefully more word could be done and maybe some of the changes could potentially be added in official updates.

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These changes will propably never be added to the official release as the PR standars require for both teams to have same amount / balanced assets. We tried to talk about it years ago and got completely shut down. Best thing we can do is start a petition to have the COOP devs add couple of lines for each vehicle spawn and flag that state the ownership, delay and amount so we could edit them freely as needed.

EDIT : All the changes are currently up on the test server (PW: 123). I can upload them to dropbox sometime if needed.

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2 hours ago, =VG= TEDF said:

ALT : 

1. Removed 1 man tanks and reduced the total number of tanks to 2, with one of them being delayed.

Totally against this particular decision. In my eyes Kashan ALT should stay as it was. Perfect layout for 1-6 players and we have both STD and LRG for rounds with bigger amount of players. 

Apart from that, I am looking forward to all those changes.

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2 hours ago, =VG= TEDF said:

Kashan : 

STD : 

1. Reduced total number of tanks from 12 to 4. All tanks have increased respawn times. All one man tanks have been removed.

2. Reduced respawn time on bot aircrafts

I would say this the one that i was waiting for, to be honest...

There's likely too much of Tanks (and also APC), for an armor-fighting map (too easy than the ALT or even the LRG sometimes). Infantry at least have some space for the playing, with some Trans Truck/Logi Truck/G-Wagen Jeep plays the role.

 

No changes for CAS and Trans, seems ok..

Avenger AAV here, not so much being used lately (since there's only one), but can still counter those enemy Aircrafts which is now has longer respawn. Looks fair by reducing Blufor armors (Tanks)

 

Let's just say this, the larger the layout for Kashan, the easier you won the round (ofc it does depends on number of players in-game though)

 

- Inch

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3 hours ago, Spartanish said:

Totally against this particular decision. In my eyes Kashan ALT should stay as it was. Perfect layout for 1-6 players and we have both STD and LRG for rounds with bigger amount of players. 

Apart from that, I am looking forward to all those changes.

We played around on it with 20ish people and I didn't notice any changes, apart from instead of having 10 vehicles camping on the hills, it was only 2. 1 f16, abrams and 3 bradlies is more than enough to counter the first wave of t62s and BMP1s that roll out.

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@Double: That works only when we make for excample our own mappack. I cannot add things to original maps ... not with serverside modding. 

3 hours ago, =VG= TEDF said:

These changes will propably never be added to the official release as the PR standars require for both teams to have same amount / balanced assets. We tried to talk about it years ago and got completely shut down.

Maybe we should try it again. Some years are gone. Isn't so that they know everything.

The Devteam could create multiple layers for coop and singleplayer like 128 , 64 , 32 ,16 , sp1 , sp2 , sp3. I never understood why having kokan and kokan_sp in the core build.

Atleast 2 layers could be sacrificed for an asymetrical asset layout.

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23 minutes ago, =VG= Fastjack said:

@Double: That works only when we make for excample our own mappack. I cannot add things to original maps ... not with serverside modding. 

Maybe we should try it again. Some years are gone. Isn't so that they know everything.

The Devteam could create multiple layers for coop and singleplayer like 128 , 64 , 32 ,16 , sp1 , sp2 , sp3. I never understood why having kokan and kokan_sp in the core build.

Atleast 2 layers could be sacrificed for an asymetrical asset layout.

Concidering how "bitchy" they are on the community modding section over smallest things I doupt they will come around, but doesn't hurt to ask again. The mappack will most likely never going to be in again for the same reason it got abandoned - Doesn't match the standards. Quite shame, over 20 maps just thrown away.

Technically we woudln't need those 3 extra layers, just so that whoever does the coop layers would just do those 3 extra clicks in the editor every time they put down a vehicle or a flag so we could edit them on server side as needed and I'm sure that the overflow of assets would be fixed. And it would allow us to bring Melon's OPFOR fridays back without the hassle of flag ownerships and overflow of assets.

I can send a message to the guy who I've always been redirected to when it comes to COOP stuff with our request and see what happens although I wouldn't hold your breath.

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1 hour ago, =VG= TEDF said:

We played around on it with 20ish people and I didn't notice any changes, apart from instead of having 10 vehicles camping on the hills, it was only 2. 1 f16, abrams and 3 bradlies is more than enough to counter the first wave of t62s and BMP1s that roll out.

Yea, with 20 people. When I meant situations with 1-6, out of which only half respond to mumble calls.

Kashan ALT was perfect solution for such situations when for few hours there are such little amount of players. It is pretty much the only map which provides that in such circumstances. Altering that seems pointless and unnecessary to me. Unless remaining tanks are gonna be manned by completely reckless players, they're still gonna dominate map anyway. Remove tanks in total? You're gonna have TOWs 'camping' on hills. And as I mentioned before, there are two differents kashan layouts and all of khamisiyah which could be adjust for more balanced combined arms gameplay.

 

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2 hours ago, =VG= TEDF said:

Concidering how "bitchy" they are on the community modding section over smallest things I doupt they will come around, but doesn't hurt to ask again.

I know what mean with saying this. I'm also a bit dissapointed atm. I requested only 1 thing ... the random python for bipods and other deployable stuff. Still waiting for an anser like YES or NO. Sux a little bit. With that coop would be great again and coop insurgency with all concepts are done. Other things has more priority.

 

@ TEDF and serverside modding options: 

Can you change the temperature values of soldierclasses and vehicles without crashing the serverfiles?

 

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51 minutes ago, =VG= Fastjack said:

@ TEDF and serverside modding options: 

Can you change the temperature values of soldierclasses and vehicles without crashing the serverfiles?

 

You should be able to edit everything with server in the title as long as you only change the numbers and nothing else. 

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8 hours ago, =VG= TEDF said:

These changes will propably never be added to the official release as the PR standars require for both teams to have same amount / balanced assets. We tried to talk about it years ago and got completely shut down. Best thing we can do is start a petition to have the COOP devs add couple of lines for each vehicle spawn and flag that state the ownership, delay and amount so we could edit them freely as needed.

Add what? All available assets or extra spawn points. Because spawnpoints and object spawners can easily be added to to any flag serverside. Well not that easy but still not that hard. Only thing you can't do serverside and I've always said this is adding objects that don't appear on the map in the first place. Example adding a tank to kokan or an extra flag.  everything else is possible. Move or remove flags adding extra spawns to flags or an object spawner to another flag etc.

4 hours ago, =VG= Fastjack said:

The Devteam could create multiple layers for coop and singleplayer like 128 , 64 , 32 ,16 , sp1 , sp2 , sp3. I never understood why having kokan and kokan_sp in the core build.

I don't know who you're referring to when you say this. Not only do you need someone to make all these maps you also need a whole new user interface that has the option to simply and easily launch a SP game and I just don't think enough people play these days to warrant such an effort for1 server, as much as I love VG.

As for why there was a kokan sp that was because of an issue that we've since found a way around. And kokan was my favourite so rather than remove it...

Now rant time, this isn't directed just at you jack so don't think it is.

I'm not sure how many current players were actually playing PR prior to 1.0, which was the first patch that brought my coop changes and maps. My attempt was a mess. But it was enough to save coop from being scrapped which was the general concensus at the time. For those that don't know or have forgotten we had about 10 maps and of those about 3-4 crashed every time they ran and only probably half had more than one layer. There was broken spawns and enemy vehicles you could drive. Helicopters on karbala you couldn't fly. 2 min vehicle respawns on kashan etc. I spent hundreds of hours navmeshing testing and going to other playersfor ideas. I navmeshed almost every map and mad at least 2 layers for each of those we went from about 15 playable layers to about 70. The reason i did this was VG, I still had to make the maps blanced and playables in local above everything, but even now if you look theyare all still slightly skewed in opfors favour. And it wasn't just that. I had to make the maps enjoyable in high pop and low pop times, which meant a bunch of local testing with the then server regulars like Dave and pas n gas. All I got was bitching about what I did wrong or how I needed to add or remove shit.

I hate how stupid personal issues still get brought up, if you want something changed do it your goddamn selves. Sure some of the ai files are in the wrong places and some maps have tiny issues but I work my ass off to fix these, or I used to. The thing is though, the game is still perfectly playable and it hasn't been scrapped. I don't mind saying that i was the one who saved coop, cause i did. if i put a few things in the wrong place or fucked aup a few things so what. I started modding because I was unhappy with the state of coop, I didn't have anyone to bitch to cause nobody cared. I taught myself just about everything through trial and error. Testing and fixing. And there is always complaining, nobody is happy. I balanced the game by making sure the game is too easy complaints  were balanced with  the number of the game is too hard complaints.
Ted is trying tro do actually do somethign worthwhile because unlike me he still has the patience to put up with all you guys complaining. Honestly.

I'm sure ted wants feedback that is directly related to his changes in this thread, not bitching about what he or the devs or anyone else should do.

Rant over

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It wasn't directed directly to you Melon. It was directed to the PR team as a whole. The whole crew who DECIDE things!

That what i post is also not bitching from me. I'm only responsible for what i write and not what you or someone else understand. Dont interpret any harsh whispering evil sounds or voices in my posts. When i directing something to you, i talk directly to you and use your name.

Quote

As for why there was a kokan sp that was because of an issue that we've since found a way around.

Because i'm not sitting next to god and also not being his consultant, no, i didn't knew that there was a problem. But i only wrote i dont understand it. Where i came from is "not understanding something" not hostile or moaning.

 

Also for you info .......

If you have beef with TEDF or Double or who ever because of some comments i saw above ....... i dont know anything and i also dont understand your reaction.

I'm looking forward to TEDF's changes because he AND others are absolutely right about the shitload of vehicles for humans on a map. It's to much. Arguments like, both teams must setup balanced only to be able to play on both sides doesn't work well on me. ONE layer would be enough for this PR STANDARDS. 3 layers still left. One goes for skirmish. 2 left. STD and ALT. 

I dont know how much the MOD screwed some things that belongs to SinglePlayer when you talk about userinterface.

Question: You know that BF2 was never designed to have SinglePlayer? You know they used a cheapy hack method to allow sp1,sp2,sp3 layers?

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2 hours ago, =VG= Melon Muncher said:

Add what? All available assets or extra spawn points. Because spawnpoints and object spawners can easily be added to to any flag serverside. Well not that easy but still not that hard. Only thing you can't do serverside and I've always said this is adding objects that don't appear on the map in the first place. Example adding a tank to kokan or an extra flag.  everything else is possible. Move or remove flags adding extra spawns to flags or an object spawner to another flag etc.

I mostly meant the lines that set flag ownership on neutral flags which for example are currently missing on wanda shan and kashan. Also would love to have the lines for spawn delay and the amount of assets spawned. The values can be set to 0 or 1 for asset count so they are just inactive, but can be activated serverside when needed. 

I'm sorry if The comment "yes, I'm taking a piss on devs" or the other stuff I've panthered over the time felt like it was meant towards you, Melon, because it wasn't but was mostly towards the devs who constantly reject everything community modders throw out just because it doesn't meet their insane standards. The amount of amazing mappers and modellers who have rudely been turned down for some stupid reasons like "I don't like that one building or that that one colour on this side of the gun is .5% different shade than on the other side" is insane. 

I'm just shooting out ideas and suggestions for future that I'm unable to fix/touch atm on server side. I'm not excpecting someone to do them for me, if the idea were to be accepted then sure, I would love to do the changes. But with the current PR Lead Administration team, I can't be sure that in the end the entire thing wouldn't be just thrown over board.

So again, sorry if I've offended You or anyone else around here with my blattering, I know that I can be a pain quite often because I like to complain about a lot of things, but most of those things are meant in a sarcastic and not in offensive way. 

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@ted @fastjack

Wasn't getting mad at you, more getting mad at the fact the thread is being derailed by requests and unrelated discussion.

And yes might have taken some of it a bit personally because I'm the coop dev, or was.

As for the rest of your stuff ted.

Like I said, the only thing you can't do is add things to a map that aren't there like a vehicle or flag.

You can do pretty much anything so long as you don't change a few fundamental things in the game. Using the editor will immediately break everything so it all needs to be done in notepad which sucks. I don't have a pc set up and my memory of the objecttemplates isn't amazing so I cant give a good example.
just add the line needed manually, bf2 code works by having any line that is represented by a value be loaded, but the editor deletes and only shows lines that aren't 0, so add them and change the value. The game will understand and not crash. Remember though, manual only notepad not editor.

When I'm back up and running I'll show you what I know in serverside modding, including adding extra vehicle spawn, adding spawnpoints,moving and removing flags, changing loadouts etc, though you might work some out before I'm back. PM me here if you've got some serious questions and I'll tty to help as best I can.

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