ranger_12

Server RULES. N 5

28 posts in this topic

5. Disrespect

Racism will result in an immediate ban.
Religious/political hostilities, flaming, harassments and threats will be condemned harshly.

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50 minutes ago, ranger_12 said:

5. Disrespect

Racism will result in an immediate ban.
Religious/political hostilities, flaming, harassments and threats will be condemned harshly.

It is already mentioned in the rules Ranger.

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9 hours ago, zero_tolerance_s said:

It is already mentioned in the rules Ranger.

i know, Remind some people. some people forget about rule n 5 . so i just wanted to remind them.

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How productive is this thread?  This "reminder"?  How do you even know the person or people from the VG PR COOP you intend to "remind" will even see this random post here on the forums?

If my tone sounds pissy, it's because over the 6 years I've been doing this, I've developed a pet peeve for people who address a problem on our server with the equivalent of "You got a problem on your server - but I won't tell you who/what/when".   We know our rules - we're the ones who wrote them, and revised them over the years...  What we need to know is who is violating those rules.

 

 

If you provided this "soft report" because you don't want to single anyone out, or because the person is a PR Admin or =VG= Clan Member and you think we'll play favorites, you are wrong.  While we don't immediately ban PR Admins or =VG= Clan Members on initial reports, we do investigate, and we do correct the actions of Admins or =VG= Members, and if they don't improve, they are basically signing their own ban slip.

We can't be having racism or religious/political hostilities here, and I need to know who "forgot" about rule no. 5 if you want anything to improve -- passive aggressive "reminders" will not accomplish much, I guarantee it!  Things like this don't just "go away".

If you wrote this because you don't want anyone to get banned but you merely want the behavior to stop, I can understand that and can tell you that whenever possible, it's our goal to STOP things from happening, not to BAN every person we can from the game -- if we can address this issue by having a talk with the person who violated the rules, would you be happy with that?

 

Maybe file a proper report (via private message if needed) with me or another Administrator here so I can look into it, and nip it in the bud.

nip it in the bud barney.jpg

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Dude.., Ranger... i hope you're not talking about that little chat about Islam and alcohol. You know that absolutely everybody was kidding. :cray:  

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This is for the noobs. because i noticed that the server last days full of hates and religious chaters and spam. especialy when it comes to some maps where jews plays against hamas or against insurgency. i know lot of noobs reading news in this forum and i wanted to send a message because  they still noobs and most of them don't know the reules.

scond i wander why the only two guys respond to this are Jersans and zero ? (because u act like my mom jersans ?) no its not and there is nothing to do with you or zero. and im trying to be usefull as much as i can in this server. even if its a small share. but its ok. No specific person SEMLER. 

sorry if my topic ause u inconvenience. but there is lot of disgusting  spams and chat from to many players (especialy NOOBS). 

again all i wanted is to send a mesage to all including myself ... Regardless of whether im racist or not.

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If you are reading this topic, you ask yourself first what that should be. but ranger is quite right with it.
if you are on a map play against "Jewish bots", then you can often hear "lets kill some jews" or with muslim (bots!) enemies like "lets kill this muslim bastards". just as there are squads like "3rdReich", "ss" or similar. As a German i notices this immediately because in Germany is a very strong awareness for the suffering that we have  done to the Jews in the third reich.
you can say that is only fun ... but how does a Jewish  player feels whose father was killed by the ss in a kz and now suddenly sees in this game a squad called "ss"? how does a Turkish player feel when his teammate shout out "die you fuckin muslim bastard" while he is shooting at the enemy?
but we live in a very fascist-like time. Currently, not only in america, but worldwide, a mood against muslims is made which I find very questionable. we had that already 70 years ago and we were wrong.

a good friend of mine is indian. I say to him often things like "you're not even really black" just as he calls me potato. but this happens in a field where it is clear that it has no rasistic background. fun because it does not matter where you come from or how you look like.
but who in the public is saying something like that wants to make bad mood or has a problem in this direction.

I think this is not a big problem in project reality because 90% of the players do not express themselves politically or racist but I am also not affected and therefore i can not say how a Jew or muslim feels when something like that happens. but certainly not good or welcome.

I can understand ranger. it is annoying not only when such direct racisms fall but also if it is always about cultural differences and things like that.
it was perhaps a bit clumsy just to post this rule here without explaining the background but  you can not warn often enough before subliminal racism.

as I said, I am not directly affected but it annoys me often to hear this bullshit.

what can you do about it? such block this situations  and immediately go into the offensive but it annoys anyway.
 
8 hours ago, =VG= SemlerPDX said:

How productive is this thread?  This "reminder"? 

How productive is it to react like this?

 

8 hours ago, =VG= SemlerPDX said:

Things like this don't just "go away".

u are right. there are getting harder... this sounds like "we cant do anything, so shut up"

 
if someone in the game says that he wants to kill muslims, it is ok.
if someone warns of racism in the forum he has to explain.
something is going wrong,
think about it.
 
 
just because this threat named disrespect, this threat does not have to be full of it ^ ^
 
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Again, I just spent another hour reviewing EVERY log for the past several days (albeit with nothing but vague inferences and no way to zero in on the chats that were so offensive) - imagine my surprise when I came up with little evidence of any wrongdoings.

We love you all, and we're glad you all play here - none of us here are racists either, and there is certainly a level where "role playing" goes too far -  don't think we are not aware of that.... but dude, we're not psychic.  We need details!

4 hours ago, 0100011000101 said:
9 hours ago, =VG= SemlerPDX said:

How productive is this thread?  This "reminder"? 

How productive is it to react like this?

Hopefully it will be extremely productive!  I'm really hoping this will sink in with you lot - if you want something done, you have to do something about it.

To quote The Schnurr, "Hope is not an action plan", and you are "hoping" the violators of these rules are going to read your "reminder" thread.  My disdain for vague reports that fall to dust when I review logs should be apparent -  it's like you witnessed someone get beat to a pulp, then ran to the police to say, "You better do something about all these beatings!"  -- while the police then say, "Who got beat?  Where and when?!  And why won't you tell us?"



That being said, I am extremely pleased that Ranger >>>12<<< finally decided to be more forthcoming and posted up more information because I've got no patience for people who don't report bad shit going on around them.  There is a report system in game - !R <player> <reason>    -  in real life, witnesses might rightfully fear for their lives but these are just video games --  use !R if you are a witness!  We will curb the behavior.

That's MY reminder to players here!

It's very simple, soldiers:  See something? Say something!
 

I'm gonna try my best to stop random racism as reported but...  If you think you can affect a proper change on the VG PR Server among the correct people with a little "reminder" post like this, you've got another thing coming!  Be more professional in the future, and file a report like this properly instead of quoting a rule:  State what happened, state when, state who (if possible, in private if not).  We will always do our best to keep the server a clean, fun place to hang out.

To all PR Admins:  Please, if you hear or see someone chatting about this crap - even if it's in the spirit or "role playing" - tell them to take it down a notch and PTFO!  Minor jokes are one thing, but persisting to the point where people feel like they need to report is going way too far.  Set an example and don't let things go too far out of line.

 

4 hours ago, 0100011000101 said:
9 hours ago, =VG= SemlerPDX said:

Things like this don't just "go away".

u are right. there are getting harder... this sounds like "we cant do anything, so shut up"

No, basically I'm saying,
"If you do not have times or dates, or people for us to investigate in the logs - if you can't even give us a keyword(s) or anything more than a vague concept of what is happening - if you cannot use the !Report to tag events you witness personally - THEN we will likely not be able to address the matter properly and the issue may persist"   

I am also saying, "if you don't provide more information, though we will try, we will not be in a position to watch out for anything or anyone's behavior, and therefore by very definition we cannot do anything."

 

Keeping these servers clean is a two way street - if you want to do your part, hold off on the vague reports and "reminders" and use the report system in-game (or file a private report with a Head Administrator like TEDF, Melon, myself, BLuDKLoT, or even m823us).
Once again:
See something? Say something!

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2 hours ago, 0100011000101 said:

if someone in the game says that he wants to kill muslims, it is ok.

WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

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4 hours ago, 0100011000101 said:

just as there are squads like "3rdReich", "ss" or similar

It's your duty to report assholes who use squad names like that.  We've made it clear in the past that these sorts of names are not allowed here.  If you are witnessing this and not reporting it to in-game admins or with !R for the logs when no admins are online, then you are being complacent.  You do not get to complain about such things when you allow them to persist by not reporting them.  You give up that right when you become complacent.

My duty is to put my size thirteen boot down the throats of dicks who use squad names like those.  I can't do my duty if you don't do your duty. :big_boss:

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10 hours ago, ranger_12 said:

This is for the noobs. because i noticed that the server last days full of hates and religious chaters and spam. especialy when it comes to some maps where jews plays against hamas or against insurgency. i know lot of noobs reading news in this forum and i wanted to send a message because  they still noobs and most of them don't know the reules.

scond i wander why the only two guys respond to this are Jersans and zero ? (because u act like my mom jersans ?) no its not and there is nothing to do with you or zero. and im trying to be usefull as much as i can in this server. even if its a small share. but its ok. No specific person SEMLER. 

sorry if my topic ause u inconvenience. but there is lot of disgusting  spams and chat from to many players (especialy NOOBS). 

again all i wanted is to send a mesage to all including myself ... Regardless of whether im racist or not.

Ranger's got a point, there are a lot of new players turning up and running amuck. We need to warn and kick a lot more players who insist on spamming the chat with constant garbage.

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@=VG= Kavelenko

@ranger_12 does have a point. But you know as I know that it's hard to deal with things like (c)overt racism. I too see some shit that I sometimes feel justifies a kick or even a ban. I.e. https://www.gametracker.com/server_info/5.9.23.136:16567/top_players/?query=hitler Or more 'subtle' references like using several numbers or letters. https://www.adl.org/education/references/hate-symbols There are plenty of 'randoms' or noobs with for example 18 (Adolf Hitler) or 88 (Heil Hitler) references in their nicknames. But we can't ban them for that. Maybe they were born in 1988 or their birthday is on the 18th or they just picked a random number. We can't just assume. Right?

Binary mentioned some people yell 'let's kill the jews' or 'let's kill the muslims' etc. You, I and all other admins would like nothing more than to use our !k or !b privileges to get rid of these idiots any time we see or hear it because we're not killing Jews, Russians or Muslims, we're killing bots and / or more specific the enemy and we do it together. All of us. Some of us are Jews, others are Christian or Muslim or Atheist and we're all of different ethnic backgrounds from all around the world.

But - and I think this is what @zero_tolerance_s was referencing to - we do engage in friendly banter, I make fun of the Brits all the time and they of me. That's also the spirit of this server. We're a band of brothers regardless of our individual backgrounds or beliefs. Correct me if I am wrong but I don't feel it's racist or discrimination when we point out someone isn't / couldn't be drunk because he is a Muslim and doesn't drink and make a few jokes about it. Especially if it is a valued and well-known member of our community such as @ranger_12. I for one respect anyone's personal beliefs and life choices especially if it doesn't involve poisoning your liver. :)

Anyway. @ranger_12 if we did insult you by insisting you couldn't be drunk (and just messed up a few things) because you're a Muslim and you don't drink I apologize for it. You and I go waaaaaaaaaayyyy back and we had some very interesting talks about your heritage and beliefs. I'm not your mom but I do consider you a friend and I do care what you have to say.  So sorry if we insulted you. 

 

 

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SemlerPDX has given us pretty clear instructions regarding the use of references to Hitler, SS, etc, Squad and player names included and its strictly out. I don't hesitate to resign squads who do that, and kick them if they persist or argue about it.

I wasn't around to hear  the banter with Ranger but lets all be honest here, Ranger you don't exactly have a perfect record either mate. I've heard you abusing players in the game for not doing what you want them to do. Most of us use have used filthy language either in TS or within our squads especially when we are with players we know. BUT blatant racism is another thing, and should not be excused.

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27 minutes ago, =VG= Kavelenko said:

SemlerPDX has given us pretty clear instructions regarding the use of references to Hitler, SS, etc, Squad and player names included and its strictly out. I don't hesitate to resign squads who do that, and kick them if they persist or argue about it.

I wasn't around to hear  the banter with Ranger but lets all be honest here, Ranger you don't exactly have a perfect record either mate. I've heard you abusing players in the game for not doing what you want them to do. Most of us use have used filthy language either in TS or within our squads especially when we are with players we know. BUT blatant racism is another thing, and should not be excused.

I'd vote for a ban on sight and in hindsight option on these antics. Have you seen some of the usernames? For example  HTL Hitlersgasbill .... I'm sorry but as a human-being I find that horrendous. But also  hitler_ez Who I couldn't kick/ban in time because he'd already left - which was only a few days ago. @=VG= SemlerPDX?

I think you're right. But I also think that we need far clearer and harsher instructions on how to deal with this type of insanity.

As for @ranger_12 NO he doesn't have a clear record but all-in-all he's a good guy, a reliable player and IF we insulted him by joking that he 'must be drunk' and 'that he can't be drunk because he's a Muslim' I'm man enough to apologize for it. Friendly banter is only friendly if it's taken the right way by all parties involved. 

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11 hours ago, Jersans said:

 

Anyway. @ranger_12 if we did insult you by insisting you couldn't be drunk (and just messed up a few things) because you're a Muslim and you don't drink I apologize for it. You and I go waaaaaaaaaayyyy back and we had some very interesting talks about your heritage and beliefs. I'm not your mom but I do consider you a friend and I do care what you have to say.  So sorry if we insulted you. 

 

 

11 hours ago, Jersans said:

Anyway. @ranger_12 if we did insult you by insisting you couldn't be drunk (and just messed up a few things) because you're a Muslim and you don't drink I apologize for it.

 

 

again, Jersans you don't have to apology, u did't do anything wrong to me not you not zero. '' zero is one of my favorite admins in this game and i do respect him much'' its just maybe i posted this report in a not wise time because we had some funny chat on TS about muslims and alkohole and beers XD ... i myself not intersted in how alkohole can do to me because i don't NEED TO DRINK IT. im good without it :D .... i once was play assad and we was doing good injoying the game and a player i can't remember him just spams on mic lets kill hamas f***k hamass we gonna steal their money :D ... wt*** how a kid joined the game yesterday to feel when he hear this crap ?? all i hope is to warn ppls not to do this. i even stand with some jews in this game and i know them when someone insult them i DEFEND  THEM because i know more much than this block heads haters know anyway. we had enought from TV, MEDIA, POLITICIANS  i always kep say: this is a different world. keep it clean, if i wanted to live the same crap world. i would not come and login VG SERVER.

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10 hours ago, Jersans said:

 

As for @ranger_12 NO he doesn't have a clear record but all-in-all he's a good guy, a reliable player and IF we insulted him by joking that he 'must be drunk' and 'that he can't be drunk because he's a Muslim' I'm man enough to apologize for it. Friendly banter is only friendly if it's taken the right way by all parties involved. 

again you did't insulted me and your jokes was acceptable Jersans. man ! i knew few guys they like me, they love to joing my squad, after few ''broken english words'' they leave the squad wispering: what a freek :D this is not the point. because some of them like my accent :D ... i made my self as example thats all im not importat thing! or something i just wanted to send a message because anway PR without hates is BETTER. thats all . hope U guys forgive me if made disturbance forume. i did't mean it. 

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Fine Ranger. I guess it was wrong timing on your part and I do hope our banter was mutually funny and acceptable. 

Nevertheless like Kav mentioned your post may be at the wrong time but we do have to accept that some ignorant idiots frequent our servers and we need to fix that. There are way too many bigots and idiots playing on our servers. 

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Kids and trolls. It's all shit and I don't put up with that shit. This is how I handle them shit bags...

1. Immediately resign squads with shit names. Explain why and ask them to name their squad appropriately.

2. Immediately warn then kick players with shit names (gamer tag) or shit clan tags.

    If the player returns without making changes then time-ban with explanation. If continued further then perm ban.

3. If you hear or see someone in chat using shitty inappropriate language warn them verbally if possible or through commands.

    If the player continues then kick or time-ban with explanation. If continued further then perm ban.

 

I have heard my fair share of shit on our server. I find that a verbal warning works most of the time. I don't put that person on blast but I pull them aside and ask them to respect our players and our server or go somewhere else.

 

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welcome to 2017 the moment where everything you say or do is wrong.

you don't do anything you lazy you do something you overdoing it.

I he only briefly read the threat but i can understand the point.

I agree that when certain maps with muslim nations are been played the level of edgy jokes becomes quite high as non muslim person you might see it as lolz but for ranger and other muslim people it might be more of an issue. I am not referring to the  allhaa Akbar shouting that’s more annoying than been funny but I can image that people playing the isis song saying it’s funny can be more like a reference to hell they might had to deal with.

Same could be said about the jokes people make when playing Vietnam maps where I LOVE THE SMELL NEPALM IN THE MORNING could be viewed as something horrible from people in vietnam

The main thing is where do you draw the line. From an European/American point of view the Isis spam could be seen more as a joke but for middle eastern people it would be the same as making holocaust jokes; but we do not allow this. Making Gas-inf when playing IDF does not mean you work for the gas utility company

I know I for one make quite some jokes with the people I play with but it stays within the limits that its fun for both sides. Example would be me calling Mr Poland (spartanish) cheap and he calling me Mr dutch cheezehead would not be an issue for us both as we both know its just for fun.

If you go back a year ago and check the reports I got warned for calling some kid a newb as he couldn’t read the map. I got warned not to call people noob as it is disrespectful. Then joining the server hour later you see an melon shouting cunt cunt cunt and that’s not an issue its part of the language. So we allow Cunt but not noob as its apparently less to not offensive, kinda odd if you ask me.

(not to pick on melon its just one of the examples of words that seem to be used all the time without issues)

I think its good we having this debate and try to motivate people to stop shouting random things they do not know the meaning of and report it if it gets TO FAR OUT OF HAND. But you cant and should not try to ban all these saying as it would be impossible to say anything

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1 hour ago, =VG= Double_13 said:

I think its good we having this debate and try to motivate people to stop shouting random things

thats the point.

ranger dont wrote this because he dont know how to report somebody. he had tried to set a statemment.

 

PR is a war simulation based on reality. I do not know whether it is good or a mistake to kill existing cultures.
Anyone who is a bit longer on the vg-server or in the forum resides that this community is not racist. (just like everyone knows how to make a report)
rangers statement should therefore not be suppressed with "just report them" but we should show as a community to the outside that something like racist behavior is not wanted here.

if someone in voice-chat says "oh no, im black" makes it more sense to ask him what his problem is than to kick him. it has to be unpleasant for such people and it will be when you talk about it.

on the other hand there must also be space for fun in this direction. but of course so that no one feels really attacked.

we can make racist jokes or shout out "blitzkrieg" when you win a game in 10 minutes. but as soon as someone feels hurt by something like that, you have to move it straight.

so  long,

Hans;)

 

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7 hours ago, ranger_12 said:

forgive me if made disturbance forume

^ This here... 

6 hours ago, Jersans said:

your post may be at the wrong time but

and ^ this here...

I have no idea why you think it was a bad time to post this.  I also want you to know this is not a disturbance.  I do not understand why you think it is a disturbance, or a bad thing to post.  I really hope you understand now any frustration I expressed above was in regards to the initial lack of details regarding this post.

For example:  I'm about to clean house and ban several people from the server that I did not know where playing here - people with the name Hitler - and I'm frustrated that this is the first time I'm hearing about recent players using this name.  I'm NOT disturbed and I am NOT bothered that I have to deal with an issue or work with the server files or logs -- it is ALWAYS okay to report poor behavior on our servers!!

 

5 hours ago, =VG= Double_13 said:

If you go back a year ago and check the reports I got warned for calling some kid a newb as he couldn’t read the map. I got warned not to call people noob as it is disrespectful. Then joining the server hour later you see an melon shouting cunt cunt cunt and that’s not an issue its part of the language. So we allow Cunt but not noob as its apparently less to not offensive, kinda odd if you ask me.

"I did this, but HE did that -  I got in trouble, but HE did not!"  .... just gonna say this once:   You are all not part of every warning or action or "talking to" that every other member receives.  You also don't get to read every report I get from people other than you.  If I spoke with Melon about that incident after receiving private reports, you all would not be informed of such reports or any actions I took.  If you think I could even devote my own brain to remember such an event, you are mistaken - I deal with examples such as this as they come, and then I move on.  When I receive a private report about someone and have to talk to them, I do not mention specific details FROM the report, such as the name of the person/people reporting or any details that would reveal such information whenever possible or appropriate.  In this way, I hope that I am acting with the utmost professionalism and respect for all of you.

Many of you know what I am talking about because it's very possible that people reading this thread (at least 3 for sure) have been talked to BY ME regarding something they need to improve, and NONE of you even know about who/when/why because I treat you all with respect and give you all the chance to improve your behaviors or attitudes during your time here.  I CERTAINLY DO NOT make these matters public, especially when they involve a PR Admin, VG Clan Member, Server Manager or fellow Head Administrator.

Furthermore, remember: It's not always what you say, but how you say it.  Attitude is everything.  If you act out, police yourself: don't to it again - cool off, and come back and don't do it again!  Everyone gets upset sometimes, let's all do our best to keep those events as rare as they can be.  It's not like "Melon gets a pass" -- YOU ALL GET A PASS!  If you keep up, if you can't improve, like I said: you sign your own ban.  Most everyone I've talked to after events that come to my attention has always chosen to improve and to do better.

 


edit:  I like to think I do a good job here, but I am always open to constructive criticism.  Some people may wonder what it is that I do here, and this is it.  Sometimes instead of playing games or chatting with friends, or working with the servers on the back end, I have to de-escalate high level matters directed at the upper management of this Clan, and ensure that people move forward appropriately, otherwise I have to ask them to leave (which doesn't necessarily involve a ban in every case).  I deliberate with the other Administrators here as appropriate, and we form a consensus when applicable at times.  This is my role.

I love what BLuDKLoT and the others have built here so much that I would do anything to help it persist, including making the hard calls when necessary.  Some of them got more busy, I have more time - so it defaulted to me to act as "OIC" when necessary.  Just FYI.

3 hours ago, 0100011000101 said:

if someone in voice-chat says "oh no, im black" makes it more sense to ask him what his problem is than to kick him. it has to be unpleasant for such people and it will be when you talk about it.

So, here's an example of where I'd like to express myself by ridiculing your statement in a humorous fashion (but in a friendly way), except that I feel I cannot do so because it will be lost in translation.  I might sound like a dick, when I only wanted to make you and I laugh at something you wrote.  Understand my general point using this example that when words are taken out of context, they can be incorrectly judged.  In those cases, it's important that we all get more information, ask others what THEY though was meant by a person before taking action against that person.

So, I will sanitize my words so they translate better:

I have no idea what you are saying with this quoted statement.  Please try again.

...but I'd rather just quote an Adam Sandler movie to be funny:
"What you’ve just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this thread is now dumber for reading it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."


If a player deserves a kick, they get a kick.  Again, we always give every player the benefit of the doubt, but we can only compromise so much.  We have rules - they are posted - we have routes to get unbanned.

 

Now, I'm gonna go ban every player that has the word Hitler in their name who has played on this server recently.  I'm surprised, again, that this thread is the first I've heard of this.  Those keywords were helpful, but if you see any specific trend forming, let us know and we can scan the logs for names with those keywords.

Thanks for the reports!

Edited by =VG= SemlerPDX
EDIT: I just banned 8 players with names including Hitler, Neo/Nazi, and 88 (in names including words such as Neo) -- If you see something, report it please! Thank you!
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1 hour ago, =VG= SemlerPDX said:

when words are taken out of context, they can be incorrectly judged

that tells me that you have understood what i was trying to say.

1 hour ago, =VG= SemlerPDX said:

So, I will sanitize my words so they translate better:

I have no idea what you are saying with this quoted statement.  Please try again.

but that tells me the opposite.

 

i understand the whole thread but at this part im unsure if you are using me as a good example of misunderstanding thats sounds rasitic or do u really dont know what i wanted to say?^^

 

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4 hours ago, 0100011000101 said:

if someone in voice-chat says "oh no, im black" makes it more sense to ask him what his problem is than to kick him. it has to be unpleasant for such people and it will be when you talk about it.

 

2 hours ago, =VG= SemlerPDX said:

"What you’ve just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this thread is now dumber for reading it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."

 

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