=VG= Kavelenko

Squad Formations in PR

37 posts in this topic

Hi Everyone,

I've just created my own version of a squad formation(s) that could be used in  a PR game for infantry oriented squad leaders. These formations were originally sourced from a U.S. Army manual for Mechanized Infantry Platoon and Squad (Bradley) and modified to suit the PR Squad limitations. I'm open to suggestions on how these positions could be improved or just generally discuss how useful these formations would be in the COOP PR environment. I know this type of organization is not for everyone but it could be a source of fun for those who are interested in becoming more effective as a squad (or not) if they can transition rapidly from one formation to the next depending on the terrain and opposition the squad encounters.

Kit Selection Rationale: All kits listed are default kits, the only exceptions are the HMG/HAT kits which require access to an ammo crate or APC. Squad members should preset their kits before spawning in.

So beginning with the first movement formation,the Squad Column (in Wedge Formation):

Characteristics: Gives good control, assists maneuver, good dispersion laterally and in depth. Allows large volume of fire to the flanks but limited to the front. All round security (U.S. Army 2002, p.48).

Squad-Formation---Wedge.png

===========================================================================================

The second movement formation; Squad Line:

Characteristics: Control is not as good as column, limited maneuverability, BUT allows maximum fire to the front, poor security to the flanks and rear (U.S. Army 2002, p.48).

Squad-Formation---Line.png

=======================================================================================

The third movement formation; Squad File:

Characteristics: Control is the easiest, used for close terrain, dense vegetation, limited visibility conditions; most difficult formation to maneuver from, allows immediate fire to the flanks, has the least security of all three formations (U.S. Army 2002, p.49).

Squad-Formation---File.png

 

 

REFERENCE:

U.S. Army 2002, Mechanized Infantry Platoon and Squad (Bradley) - Field Manual No. 3-21.71(7-7J), Head Quarters Department of the Army, Washington, DC, 20 August 2002, U.S.A., pp. 47-49.

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Oh they are very nice, if you wanted to I would have let you use my Infantry Rifle Platoon and Squad (FM 7-8) for reference as well.

 

Now if we could only get a limited vocal mod and hand gestures that would go with them.  I also noticed no long range engagement kits, such as a sniper in your formations...

Great work though

 

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Thanks m823US,

Would love to read your Infantry Rifle Platoon and Squad manual sometime.

The field manual I referenced FM 3-21.71(FM 7-7J) is for Mechanized Infantry who have dismounted from their vehicles, hence the lack of snipers etc but you could easily adapt these formations to suit a long range recon squad.

Any suggestions?

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Image result for Figure 2-17 Comparison of platoon formation

 

Yeah, there are also YouTube video's that some of the trainers had posted, I will see if I can find them and follow them.  I posted a movement chart as well.  

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50 minutes ago, =VG= m823us said:

Now if we could only get a limited vocal mod and hand gestures that would go with them.  I also noticed no long range engagement kits, such as a sniper in your formations...

...and maybe something like the ShackTac HUD mod for Arma 2/3 so we can actually tell where our other squad mates are due to the difficulty of managing inter-personal distances on a computer monitor and without a sense of touch, etc:
sthud_compass.jpg

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I try to use some more tactical formations but normally end up using the MMYAP (make me yell at people) approach below

Untitled.png

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1 hour ago, =VG= Melon Muncher said:

I try to use some more tactical formations but normally end up using the MMYAP (make me yell at people) approach below

 

Bwahaha....bloody hell Melon that looks more like the Tank Squad on Khamisiyah!!

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One thing I have found very useful in PR is setting the AR as your point man. Now in real combat situations this is not often used. But in PR given the BOTs tendency to be extremely accurate, the ability for you AR to provide suppression fire is key to survival. Once the squad is in cover the squad leader can direct a tactical engagement if the AR has not eliminated the enemy. This is a tried and true practice used in large urban environments. A little less effective in open areas due to the BOTs ablilty to see threw foliage. But concepts remain the same. 

There was a member of VG years ago that he would be a squad lead and I was his team lead. We would use the above mentioned tactics and as I said it was very successful. Unfortunately I do not remember that members name. He was extremely fun to play with because we would enforce tactical movements.

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On 23/07/2017 at 6:01 PM, Joe_A said:

One thing I have found very useful in PR is setting the AR as your point man. Now in real combat situations this is not often used. But in PR given the BOTs tendency to be extremely accurate, the ability for you AR to provide suppression fire is key to survival. Once the squad is in cover the squad leader can direct a tactical engagement if the AR has not eliminated the enemy. This is a tried and true practice used in large urban environments. A little less effective in open areas due to the BOTs ablilty to see threw foliage. But concepts remain the same.

Hi Joe,

Yes absolutely no reason why a squad leader couldn't deploy an AR at point or even a sniper for that matter.

I haven't had any takers yet in PR who want to try these formations out in the game and see if they really work or not.

Obviously it would take a bit of drilling to get it right transitioning from Squad File formation to Squad Column and vice versa.

I'd love to do a video on running these formations so if anyone is game contact me and we'll do it in game.

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19 minutes ago, =VG= Kavelenko said:

Hi Joe,

Yes absolutely no reason why a squad leader couldn't deploy an AR at point or even a sniper for that matter.

I haven't had any takers yet in PR who want to try these formations out in the game and see if they really work or not.

Obviously it would take a bit of drilling to get it right transitioning from Squad File formation to Squad Column and vice versa.

I'd love to do a video on running these formations so if anyone is game contact me and we'll do it in game.

I would absolutely love to help you do these in PR. 

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Yep I'm in for that, we'll organise something on TS.

I'm pretty sure there are plenty of other SLs who might be interested in giving this a go, just to mind:

  • m823us
  • Stark58
  • Blazer
  • HaterOneActual
  • 3ryan
  • Xenalite
  • Sausage
  • Rotblut
  • Jersans
  • SemlerPDX
  • SoldierOfMisfortune
  • Double_13
  • TEDF
  • Melon Muncher
  • Spartanish
  • Skitalez
  • Badploy
  • Vincent
  • Cptn Wonderful
  • add more here >
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Well squad formations is something that might work on deployment but not on coop. Why? The coop setting is done in straight lines so one doesn't need to cover the flanks nor the back as the bots do not attack from the sides. This add to the fast pace coop have compared to deployment. If one would setup cover and such it would decrease speed within the squad and will also cause a lot of confusion within the squad as the people are not trained soldiers. This adding that covering fire/suppressive fire has 0 effect on bots and the AR/machine gunner can therefor only be utilised 20%. This as the rest needs to cover him as he moves up. 

However on flag cap/defensive settings formations will become usefull rather than having 8 people shoot1 bot north it should be 2 people shoot the bot and the rest provides 360 cover. The AR and machine gunner can be used to cover the active spawn direction the bots come from. 

I would be more interessted in team deployment in where the commander tells tanks/apc/inf to setup rather then do their own play. This would often mean that tanks push in behind the inf and take out the main wave of bots before setting up for long range defence. While doing this cas try's to protect the tanks and shoot down the inf near the tank. But this means that they have to take the risk of getting shot at close range and  that's not going to happen as that's how the mentality of it works. 

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38 minutes ago, =VG= Double_13 said:

Well squad formations is something that might work on deployment but not on coop. Why? The coop setting is done in straight lines so one doesn't need to cover the flanks nor the back as the bots do not attack from the sides. This add to the fast pace coop have compared to deployment. If one would setup cover and such it would decrease speed within the squad and will also cause a lot of confusion within the squad as the people are not trained soldiers. This adding that covering fire/suppressive fire has 0 effect on bots and the AR/machine gunner can therefor only be utilised 20%. This as the rest needs to cover him as he moves up. 

However on flag cap/defensive settings formations will become usefull rather than having 8 people shoot1 bot north it should be 2 people shoot the bot and the rest provides 360 cover. The AR and machine gunner can be used to cover the active spawn direction the bots come from. 

I would be more interessted in team deployment in where the commander tells tanks/apc/inf to setup rather then do their own play. This would often mean that tanks push in behind the inf and take out the main wave of bots before setting up for long range defence. While doing this cas try's to protect the tanks and shoot down the inf near the tank. But this means that they have to take the risk of getting shot at close range and  that's not going to happen as that's how the mentality of it works. 

When I used to work in formations we kept it to a staggered column and moved to hasty/improvised 360s when stopped. Using these yes it was slow but deliberate movements. Each member had a sector of fire and it was alot of fun to do when everyone got it right. The SL we had then was very strict and did not allow for freelancing while in his squad. Which really made it all work in a fire fight. 

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@Double_13 Sure you could argue that formations might work better on deployment but at the moment we don't even know how to use these formations at all. COOP is the best place to try something out first, after all its only bots and therefore predictable.  I bet that the first time we try this out it will be a complete disaster until all squad members understand how to change from one formation to the other in a seamless way. If it takes 3 minutes to change formation then we're all dead. Formations are only as good as the squad members you have, that's why I'm not interested in using newbs to do this initially. It will be hard enough to stay in formation with experienced players not wandering off to do their own thing.

Sure go ahead and organise heavy asset formation if you think that is possible but I think with the current way armour is used in PR you're going to find a lot of resistance.

For me I'll be happy to get an 8 man squad able to run these three formations at will and in a coordinated way, easier said than done!

Please guys if you're not interested in exploring these squad movement formations with me and Joe, don't join up, we want to explore this as objectively as possible.

cheers,

Kav

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9 minutes ago, Joe_A said:

When I used to work in formations we kept it to a staggered column and moved to hasty/improvised 360s when stopped. Using these yes it was slow but deliberate movements. Each member had a sector of fire and it was alot of fun to do when everyone got it right. The SL we had then was very strict and did not allow for freelancing while in his squad. Which really made it all work in a fire fight. 

We can add more formations as required Joe but these three will do to start things off.

You're right about 360s, when do you see that happening on our server? The number of times I've seen trans choppers blown up because a squad is too lazy to find a safe LZ or some squad member is holding up the extraction because they've decided to change their kit.

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I'm sorry if it looked like I implied that I was telling you change something. Just was story telling really. I really wish I remembered who it was that I had worked with doing stuff like this. I still have much to relearn in game to be honest. But it's coming back to me. Mainly just the old maps lol. 

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To much specialkits.

When you have good squadmates you dont need a second medic. Replace it with a rifleman for the second shot for the LAT.

When you have a machinegunner in the squad you dont need an automatic rifleman. Replace also with a rifleman for the LAT or ammo for the MG.

LAT and MG kits running quick out of ammo.

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If you wanna go pro you use 7 rifleman and a squad lead. Squad leads got medic. 

Best way to reduce tickets I have found!

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21 minutes ago, =VG= m823us said:

If you wanna go pro you use 7 rifleman and a squad lead. Squad leads got medic. 

How you will kill an enemy apc or how you laze a bigger target for CAS and how you want to take out a FOB/Hideout/Ammocache/mortarpit?

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I think my normal squad is like

SL, 2xmedic hat or lat and breacher. Any squad bigger than this is unless you have good people not able to function properly. Ammo you can get from shouting at trans or just use the bot rifle man kits/at kits. But yea people's opinions night be different. 

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53 minutes ago, =VG= Fastjack said:

How you will kill an enemy apc or how you laze a bigger target for CAS and how you want to take out a FOB/Hideout/Ammocache/mortarpit?

With winning the hearts and minds of the people. Encouraging them to stand down-and give up their Passion to fight against human players. 

Or using the !kill command.

All jokes aside though, Rifleman are a great kit due to the ability to produce ammo if you are activly engaging enemies. 

My ideal squad usually involves a GL more then an AR/MG due to the limited players that are effective with them and lack of surpression. Plus grenades are getting more effective against vehicles now, which is a plus. 

I try to roll out with a breacher if possible or combat engineer dependent upon the map. 

Some maps I have 3 medics, mostly because squads are being wiped and I am acting as a defensive element and the server pop is dying. Most of the time it is 2 due to the amountof people dying and It's a very easy kit to learn and get skill with. Not that I am trying to Say anybody can-do it it's a very much needed skill set. In that, I applaud all medics.

Heavy armor maps and usually rolling with a hat and a lat to combat the assets, Although I did show somebody how to use C4 on a vehicle the other day-and they were impressed.

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My rationale for the weapon kits are based on the fact that if you are dead and need to respawn, you won't necessarily have access to the HAT or the HMG kits, all the others are default kits that anyone can spawn in with.

Squad Leader preferences regarding the makeup of their squads is over to them, I'm not telling anyone that you MUST use this or that kit in your squad, this configuration suits me until I'm convinced otherwise. Plus it would also depend on the map and enemy the squad is likely to face, armor, air, or infantry.

But you're all missing the point and that is the squad movement formations themselves, the question we need to ask is do they work? Does the Squad Column in Wedge formation actually work or is it total bullshit?

How easy is it to switch from Squad File to Squad column during a battle, and then switch to Squad Line?

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My opinion about squad formation : It doesn't make sense in coop or not at the current stage of coop.

I remember the old Karbala 0.9. Bots spawned these times at a medium distance around the flag (carpark) and your squad was forced to cover each direction. Today they coming mostly from direction next flag/mainbase on many maps. Few maps are exceptions like Sbeneh.

It makes more sense in deployment. SL shouldn't play the role as the point man. Medics stay behind. The LAT/HAT always move with an rifleman on one flank, with distance to the squad.

 

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Yeah unfortunately the only thing that I have found to be effective is everybody taking a piece of pie and providing target acquisition and spacing for coop. 

Deployment I found people too scared to actually eengage or they've got that Rambo intuition that they charge out there and attempted be a BAMF.

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