=VG= Kavelenko

The Role of Commander in PR - a discussion

30 posts in this topic

 

16 hours ago, chickenjason123 said:

Are the devs really that pants on head retarded? They don't even play test the maps already every time they push out an update (bugged navmeshs, broken designs like the runways after the physics update, wrong armor values in vehicles etc.

Dont blame the Devs for everything. 

For excample bugged navmeshs:

leftroad_clear.png

The left road is clear but lets take a look behind the scence.

not_so_clear.png

The lampost, busstation sign and the busstation cabine Boundingboxes totally ruin the road navmesh.

navmesh_process_topdown_2D.png

Navmeshing is a 2D process like you see on the upper pic.  The reason of the navmesh hole wideness are the lamps of the lampost. The 2D process cant see that the lights hanging 4 meters in the air so the the navmesh process create s a wide one.

Solution :

Turn every fucking lampost by 90 degree only for the navmesh process so the roadnavmesh dont end up in a bottleneck. Its also possible to replace the whole object by another one that create a smaller vehicle Boundingbox. You should also move some objects a bit for the vehiclenavmesh process to guarantee that the navmesh not getting broken/interrupted.

 

sb_vehnav_navbrokenbyboundingboxes.png

The navmesh of this bridge is broken. No botvehicle can pass this bridge. The used concrete roadblocks and the lampost Boundingboxes totally preventing any connection.

As you can see, isnt so easy knowing the navmesh pattern of each staticobject and what kind of hole it creates.

 

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^^Very, very good explanation, FastJack!! :hi:

That really explains a lot, and why it is so difficult to get these "AI" bots to behave in an intelligent manner.  Maps look beautiful for a game of this age, but to see them in the way that the bots see them is very revealing.

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Well it is a good explanation to one of the main issues on coop. you should really teach me sometime how to do the navmashing correctly as the tuts I found on the interwebs are meh. 

However even this shows that the development team doesn't take time to correct the mistakes they can clearly see in the editor. I understand that making navmashes is a pain in the ass but coop is part of the mod they provide so they should also try to provide correct content for it and not just leave the coop part to die as it is only coop. I haven't seen a real coop fix since the Beirut navmesh update that caused all the bots to be stuck in main cause some new building was placed down. Fixing the always mainspawning bots on 99% of the maps would be better. 

Anyway enough about the devs stuff this topic is about commander and not about the devs.

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Just one more point on the Dev subject of COOP:
COOP would already be dead, it was slated to be dropped on full release, and Melon saved it.  They had no interest in doing the navmesh work required for the maps.  It is NOT a primary focus of the PR Dev team in any way.  The work we do here to make it popular, and the development work Melon and others do are essential to keep PR COOP alive, or it very well could be forgotten and dropped in future releases.

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Also all people here should keep in mind, that the guy who made the navmesh had to live with the statics that the mapper placed!

It isnt like he can move or delete objects like he want to optimate the success of the navmesh process. Melon wasnt the guy who placed the concrete roadblocks and lampost to close to the bridge. 

The PR mapper  placing statics how they want and zerofucksaregiven what they can cause to the navmesh.

The only thing the ai supporter can do is replace objects in critical places or find another way/trick to make it better. And it also easy said with replacing objects. There are many on a map. Many. The other way is editing the navmesh in 3ds max. Also not easy.

Additionally, there exist some statics that fuck up the navmesh and causes crashing errors (its called manifolds).

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