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=VG= l3RY4N

Very first self built PC

23 posts in this topic

Gonna get a new PC soon. And as this will be my first ever PC that i will not buy as a whole so I need some advice.

Budget will be about 800€. Now 900€ (+100€ for monitor)

What I had in mind: Original build:

    Mainboard:   MSI B250M Pro-VDH (mATX)
    CPU:   Intel Core i5-7500 (3,8 Ghz)
    GPU:   Geforce GTX 1060 OC (6GB GDDR5) or AMD Radeon RX 480 (8GB GDDR5)
    RAM:   8GB Crucial BallistX DDR4 (2400Mhz)
    power supply:   550W Corsair Vengeance

in a Sharkoon VG4-W Midi Tower and maybe a 275GB Crucial MX300 SSD.

What do you think? Anything i should change or consider?

Changes:

    RAM:   16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX black DIMM
    GPU:   Zotac GeForce GTX 1060 AMP!, 6GB GDDR5
   
harddrive:   Samsung SSD 850 EVO 250GB
ADDED: CPU-Cooler:   Cooler Master Hyper 212 Evo

=> about 900€ 

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Seems decent. id consider going to 16gb ram depending on what games/programs you're going to be running and if you keep a lot open at once. you might need a cpu cooler depending on if your cpu comes bundled with one or not. The i7 i got recently did not, and the intel stock ones aren't that great either. again not a huge issue unless you stress your system a lot.

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maybe a Cooler Master Hyper 612 ver.2 if it fits?

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Yeah something like that is good. make sure that it has your exact cpu socket supported, and if the cooler and cpu don't come with thermal paste you'll want some to apply between them.

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I also think you should double the RAM from 8 to 16GB if you can afford it.... if you cannot, then wait for a few months and then buy 2 more 4GB RAM sticks of the same brand and speed - you can always slap in more RAM later.

For storage, you want an HDD for storage, docs, pics, vids - 2TB is affordable.  For SSD to load programs from or to install OS, you want as many GB as you can afford.  I have less than 10 games on my 500GB SSD and it's full!  Also, if you install an OS on your SSD, know that it will take up between 25-40GB of space, further lowering your SSD capacity.  Again, like RAM, you can always buy another SSD a few months down the road if you find you want more SSD space.  Your base system will get you tons of fun, only months later will you find yourself wanting more SSD space and more RAM for titles like ARK or GTAV (or any of those RAM hungry new gen games).

Spend the big money now on the system, and buy little parts here and there, later on, like an extra 500GB SSD and 2x 4GB sticks of RAM.

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I think i'll go with more RAM for now.. If I get some extra money for the build I'll get a HDD for that extra storage capacity. Like Semler said, I can always go for more if i have some "change " left.

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funny-Google-Chrome-absorbing-RAM1.jpg

NEED MORE RAM.

You could use the old storage you have in your current PC. 

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There are a few things to consider from my perspective, if it is applicable to you:

 

1/ (This would probably be the most important)

Since March, Microsoft has started implementing artificial restriction on all current (Intel Kaby Lake, AMD Rizen, etc.) and future CPU generations in the form of a mandatory roll-up update to Windows 7/8.1, which introduced a CPUID check routine to Windows Update in order to block you from receiving any future security and quality update if you use Kaby Lake/Rizen and beyond. This is part of their plan to impose the One Windows policy and coerce consumer base into using Windows 10, which was already mentioned a year ago and finally came into effect now.

As such, if avoiding Windows 10, or any of the related nonsenses and fusses that you will have to deal with, is part of your concern, it is essential that you switch down to a Skylake generation (6xxx) CPU instead. The results will be as followed:

Pros:

- Allows you to use Windows 7/8.1 without being blocked from update until their extended support period expires, which is the main point of this move.

- Since current Kaby Lake chipset (like your B250) supports both Skylake and Kaby Lake CPUs, you don't miss out on the improvements of the chipset and associated new motherboards if you ditch Kaby Lake CPU.

- Due to the switch of Intel manufacturing model from Tick-Tock to Process-Architecture-Optimization, it will only introduce minimal changes and improvements per new generation both due to shorten release cycles and the industry approaching a physical limit to CPU die and chipset lithography size. As such, being on Skylake at the moment will still last you 3 - 4 years, and you don't have to play catch up with the newer generations for awhile still.

- The market has already started the price mark down on Skylake since Kaby Lake has been introduced for more than a quarter. This will potentially save you some bucks.

Cons:

- You miss out on the 5-10% (CPU and workload dependent) performance increase (which, as mentioned above about Intel's new model, is not really value to fawn over anymore).

- You miss out on Intel Optane Memory (which is a new generation of Intel SSD, available only to Kaby Lake and beyond).

 

2/ As @=VG= SemlerPDX and @=VG= Terremer have already mentioned above, you need to:

- Consider getting 16 GB of RAM because the average memory consumption of the current tech cycle has already reached the 8 GB mark, and might soon pass to 16.

- Consider getting a medium capacity (250/256 GB) SSD and a high capacity (1/2 TB) HDD instead of investing in higher capacity SSDs in order to reach a compromise between performance and cost, since we still haven't reached a point where NAND storage can yield good price to capacity ratio. The performance compromise can be reached with this model by putting your OS, system processes and all applications/programs on the SSD, while partitioning up the HDD to store contents, data, and games, allowing two separate storage pipelines that serves specific needs and I/O intensities without bottle-necking each other (a downside of the previous era where a single HDD for the entire system was common).

- Get custom cooling for your CPU, since Intel started to not include stock cooling for current and future generations. I would also recommend going for the Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO instead, as it is more straightforward to use, much more proven in the market, and a bit cheaper as well. Pair this with a tube of Arctic Silver 5 thermal paste, and you are set.

 

Hope these can be of help to you.

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One thing Bryan. I recommend buying a GTX1060 with 9Gbit/s memory. It's a refresh of the "old" version. Example would be a MSI GeForce GTX 1080 Gaming X+ 8G with 6Gb of GDDR5x memory which increases the performance up to 3-5%. The std ones have GDDR5 without x. 

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I just got a side job to get a bit more of a budget for the build. I dont know how much though.
With that extra money I'll get 16 GB of RAM and a HDD. Any recommendations for a good HDD?

3 hours ago, =VG= keed said:

One thing Bryan. I recommend buying a GTX1060 with 9Gbit/s memory. It's a refresh of the "old" version. Example would be a MSI GeForce GTX 1080 Gaming X+ 8G with 6Gb of GDDR5x memory which increases the performance up to 3-5%. The std ones have GDDR5 without x. 

Got a amazon link or something with a GTX 160 with 9gbps?

Btw I will probably get up to 1000€ for the PC but I'll need a monitor too. Do you have any tip for that? Or maybe a preferred brand?

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For your budget, I would recommend the following:

Monitor: ASUS VS228H-P: At about $100 a piece on average, it has all the essentials you would need for both entertainment and working while still being affordable.

HDD: Western Digital WD2003FZEX: About $120 a piece, 2 TB, 7200rpm, 64 MB cache, sustained 175 MB/s I/O average. You get performance of the WD Black series while paying very good capacity to cost ratio.

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@l3RY4NYes this unit has the mentioned upgrade. Although i really recommend MSI or ASUS as their coolers actually turn off during idle. Also check out this page (German speaking!) gh.at

This is my go-to site when I go shopping for hardware. Its basically a independent price-comparison website with a wishlist function where it automatically searches the best seller (for shipping as well). Otherwise you will end up with 10 different sellers when you could (depending on the price increase) buy everything at one or two shops. Also they include link to tests of products if available which saves a lot of googleíng. 

I went ahead and made one of these wishlists for you: https://geizhals.at/?cat=WL-795917

-SSD from Samsung (better controller)

-GTX 1060 6GB with upgraded memory for extremely cheap. Zotac has a backstory of fucking up the cooling unit on their cards but this seems decent and for this price too good.

-RAM is interchangeable. Buy it where you buy the majority of your components. Don't worry too much about the Mhz - only relevant on AMD systems or if you go for overclocking. (DDR4!!!!)

-Case is placeholder. Do you want a window? This is subjective. (Got one lol)

Please check it out and adjust.

keed

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the 16 gb RAM does take away about 70€ more from the budget wich i cant spend into a 2TB HDD. I added the CPU cooler to the list wich is now estimated to be about 900€ (+ 100€ reserved for the monitor). 

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Lessons learned from my budget home PC build...........All the extra parts I had to buy because I was on a "budget" without considering what I was using it for.

 

1) Processor

I ended up buying an i7 to replace my i5. 

When I started converting multi-media files (home movies, gaming vids....) I found 5 hour conversion times with an i5 and 1 hour with i7.

Some games ran better with the i7.

 

2) CPU Cooler

Had to buy a replacement air cooler.

I used the stock intel i5 cooler.  CPU overheated constantly while playing BF3/BF4.  I purchased a CoolerMaster Hyper 212 plus (old model $35.00). I overlocked my i5 3.5 to 4.7 ghz using that cooler with no issues.    

 

3) RAM

Had to buy replacement RAM.

I bought 16GBs of RAM.  Then upgraded my air cooler to a Noctua NH-14D.  It blocked my RAM slots so I had buy another 16GBs of "low profile" RAM. 

 

4) HDD/SSD

Trying to save money, I bought smaller SSD's & HDDs.  In the end, I would have saved money by buying a HUGE SSD and HUGE HDD as a backup.

 

There were other parts, and in the end, I had enough parts to make an "acceptable" i5 and a good i7 pc.  

Lesson:  Decide what your PC is used for, before buying parts.

 

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Mainly gaming. Secondaries would be programming and running a Vritual Machine with Linux OS. Nothing too fancy.

It will be  a MASSIVE upgrade for me who is currently using a old laptop wich doesnt even have a dedicated graphics card.

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If youre going to run VMs/servers etc then more ram is great. If its just one linux vm then it might not take very much ram.

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11 hours ago, SerEvergreen said:

Monitor: ASUS VS228H-P: At about $100 a piece on average, it has all the essentials you would need for both entertainment and working while still being affordable

That is a great entry level monitor.  It will be able to push 75 true FPS* to the screen, and it has decent size for it's affordable price.  

 

That monitor has *a refresh rate of 75Hz*, which is how many times per second the screen is redrawn to display the next frame from a game.  If the game is running, for example, 150 FPS (just an example!!) then that means on that monitor, every other frame would be skipped and not displayed.  Slightly confusing, but just know that fact for later.  At 1080p on a 22 inch monitor, games will look amazing at 75FPS, and YouTube HD will play properly at 1080p @60FPS.  It's gonna be like night and day compared to your current laptop!!

A side note, so you understand that monitors like mine (a 144Hz monitor) are not required, just an extra level of awesome when all other parts in your PC are maxed out:
Many games I own do not average higher than 75FPS on my i7 with GTX 970 -- but those that do benefit from my monitor's ability to refresh up to 144 times per second, meaning games can push up to 144 true FPS to the screen before my display starts skipping frames.  But I payed a lot more than a hundred dollars for this ASUS VG248QE and even so, I cannot recommend it enough.  If you can one day afford a mid-level monitor like this, you will have years of very, very smooth gaming.

I can only imagine what some of those high quality 4K displays look like in-game; would blow my decent setup out of the water!!  Of course, then I'd need to upgrade my CPU and GFX card to take advantage of such a 4K monitor - it's always about avoiding bottlenecks when improving any one component on your PC!!!

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Sadly i cant find a online retrailer wich deliveres the Monitor mentioned above to austria. Looks like I have to get a different one.

But I wanted to thank you all for your help with my build. It helped me ALOT. When I get the parts I will update this thread accordingly.

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Oh btw i did some googling and the Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVOs height is 159cm while max cooler height for the Sharkoon VG4-W is 160cm. Is that gonna be ok or is that a bit too close to the max height? @=VG= keed Whats the difference between the be quiet! Pure Power 10-CM and the Corsair Vengance 550M?

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Similar question to Bryans. I've been looking to get my own build for a long while now, similar budget as his (don't mind going slightly over/under). But I want a build that is going to be used strictly for gaming. Could use a few pointers I've literally never built a pc on my own without excessive amounts of help. Want something that is going to run the majority of the latest games with room to upgrade in future. I honestly wouldn't know where to start hence the reason I'm starting here. Any help would be much appreciated.

Should have created another thread really, but while this is still hot I thought I post it here ;) Sorry Bryan.

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@Midgee If you have a similar budget as me then why not getting (almost) the same parts as me? that build should be able to run the latest games. maybe you could invest into a better CPU (like a i7) maybe GPU and more damn space to save stuff. (I know that i will need more in the future but i dont have more money to spend right now).

But its all your decision. I will update this thread / create a new one with pics showing the building of this thing...

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3 hours ago, l3RY4N said:

Oh btw i did some googling and the Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVOs height is 159cm while max cooler height for the Sharkoon VG4-W is 160cm. Is that gonna be ok or is that a bit too close to the max height? @=VG= keed Whats the difference between the be quiet! Pure Power 10-CM and the Corsair Vengance 550M?

It should not be a concern since ATX mid towers in general are 20 - 21 cm in width average, and coolers overall (that are not giants pieces or massive systems) are designed to conform with this standard. Just make sure you assemble the parts properly and organize cables/connectors up in order to both have space for parts to sit comfortably and for your own hands to maneuver inside the case, as well as to aid ventilation and allow optimal cooling efficiency.

BTW, about the HDD, if you need extra storage space right now for content/data/gaming and can't wait until later to buy the 2 TB above, you can consider 1 TB instead (Western Digital WD1003FZEX), which would be half-price of the 2 TB, and would still fit your overall mid-specs build at the moment. Maybe leave even higher capacity until much later.

Also, don't forget to buy a tube of Arctic Silver 5 thermal paste.

 

1 hour ago, Midgee said:

Similar question to Bryans. I've been looking to get my own build for a long while now, similar budget as his (don't mind going slightly over/under). But I want a build that is going to be used strictly for gaming. Could use a few pointers I've literally never built a pc on my own without excessive amounts of help. Want something that is going to run the majority of the latest games with room to upgrade in future. I honestly wouldn't know where to start hence the reason I'm starting here. Any help would be much appreciated.

Should have created another thread really, but while this is still hot I thought I post it here ;) Sorry Bryan.

In general, if you want to achieve the above goals, especially in the realm of expandability and long life-value (3 years minimum, 5 - 6 years optimal), you would probably need about $1200 - $1300 or so in order to be comfortable. Reaching these goals with similar budget to |3RY4N is possible, but some compromises and forethoughts will need to be made in order to avoid the future entertainment requirements and tech cycles (that are only going to approach neck-breaking speed) from de-valuing your system's life too early. If you wish, I will be available to assist you in this matter, and we should do so on the side anyway in order to not hijack this thread excessively.

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1 hour ago, Midgee said:

...something that is going to run the majority of the latest games with room to upgrade in future.

So, this is a great question - what makes for a good build at X budget?

When you think future, you mean a system that won't be obsolete at it's core in a year or two.  With gaming PC's, the core components will be the Motherboard/CPU/RAM combo and the GFX card (though the GFX card is more swappable than the MoBo/CPU/RAM set, they are the big ticket items at the core of a gaming PC).  You need to set your sights on the best combo in your budget, with respect to performance value per dollars spent, and performance bottlenecks.

Your PC Case can hold many builds over the years, recycled for continued use just like your Power Supply Unit, optical drives, and old platter hard drives from previous computers or laptops (great for extra storage if they're not so old that death is near).  You should aim for a mid-tower(mATX) or full ATX case and an 80+ Certified power supply (PSU) - it's been said above, but you should also aim for a storage drive of 1-3TB in size and they have affordable HDD's and hybrid HDD's (SHDD) for storage applications and even games you cannot fit on your SSD/program drive.  Samsung EVO is still the best, fastest, and most affordable for the speed for SSD's.  M.2 SATA is too new, too expensive to be considered by many gamers yet, but know the option exists to have 5x SSD speeds (or more) with an M.2 SATA drive in addition to your other storage drives.

On that note, we cannot recommend enough a separate drive from the OS just for games, and preferably an SSD - as well as at least 16GB of RAM.  Now, RAM needs to be chosen specifically for the MoBo/CPU chipset, but it's other identifier (measured in MHz) is NOT it's current operating speed, but it's potentially stable speed achievable through overclocking and therefore not a factor to judge a RAM purchase by unless you plan to overclock your RAM.

 

So, you want a MoBo/CPU/RAM combo of a generation that can support "today's games" and some of "tomorrow's games", and can be upgraded in the future for "next week's games".  For budget, you can go for Intel's last generation of chips (Skylake), or for more expensive but better future proofing, you go with Win10 and Kaby Lake setup (i5 7600 or i7 7700) and an LGA 1151 Motherboard built for gaming with DDR4 support, and compatible DDR4 RAM preferably with heat spreaders (so long as your cooling option allows for non-low profile RAM).

Your cooling option will dictate ambient noise, ability to overclock, and is a cost factor when choosing between air cooled and liquid cooled.  Liquid cooled being the more expensive option, a closed loop system is what you want.  Some great air cooling options have been listed above already.

Where do we find what item is best for the money we wish to spend?  The Almighty Tom's Hardware!!
So, for graphics cards, you check the latest set of reviews or the roundups and find one you can afford that is also available to purchase online or in your area, and put it on the list.  Keep going through the core components you wish to add, and you will have a list that you can get filled either by going to a prebuild company like CyberPowerPC, Xidax Computers, etc.  or you can start ordering parts and build the whole thing yourself.  Keep in mind, sometimes it's cheapest to take advantage of a prebuild company's sale for a majority of a build, while finding better deals on other parts you order and install yourself after the fact.  It's all about your budget.

 

We could give you a few build lists, but in the end only you will be able to build the best gaming PC for your budget if you read about the parts at Tom's and find the ones in your budget based on good facts and tests.

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