[poll] Thoughts on Co-op Gameplay

[=VG= Melon Muncher]

Alright so I have been thinking about making coop more like deployment what are your thoughts on this.

No unlimited ammo bags for rifleman only one (can be rearmed off an ammo crate or supply drop)
No insta built assets (everything needs to be built)
No building Fobs and other deployables without supplies (depending on how many maps get a logistics component added)
Incendiary grenades for most kits (linked to 9 key so if you spawn with a parachute you wont get an incendiary unless AR)
No squad lead spawn point (added to be only spawnable by AI units)
Deployment C4 pack to replace co-op C4 (much more damage to the deployment one)
No human spawn points on the forward flags.

Edit forgot to add a none option if you dont want any just say so

[Switch]

While I really really like the increased teamwork a few of these options require, the sad thing is, only the same tight-knit group of people will be able to adapt to these changes well.

While I would like to be optimistic and hope that the changes to the server would force "bad players" to start playing well, the harsher reality is that players might leave the server in hope for an "easier" gaming experience (coughRWcough).

I think certain things should be kept the way they are just to avoid frustration with new players/bad players, such as spawning on SL, spawnpoints on forward flags, and maaaybbee instabuild assets.

One of the frustrating things on deployment is when the opposite team spawncamps a FOB instead of destroying it, and the only spawn option is main and hope for some kind of transport. A lot of people play co-op because of the faster pace and the guaranteed action, and having no spawnpoints would really limit gameplay (this is assuming the worst case scenario where no one really knows what they're doing).

HOWEVER! I really support the idea of no building assets unless you have a crate, because it would increase the "play-time" of many trans helos, and give logistics an actual reason to exist. I don't think that not being able to build assets without a crate is as debilitating as having no spawnpoints, because generally the people who build the assets are SL's who should know what they're doing. One can only hope that the people running the logistics squad can drive a truck or fly a helo.

I'm all for increasing the scope and dimensions of the game, but I'm just afraid not everyone wants that.

Deployment C4 is awesome though. Please and thank you (maybe nerf combat engineer a little bit if he's packing that much heat).

[=VG= Melon Muncher]

well hardly any are doable server side and the ones that are (crate for fobs, need to be built) cant really be implemented due to lack of logistics on most maps (lashkar, ramiel, al basrah even kashan lacks proper logistics) so you wouldnt really be able to use the crate thing.
So most thing would need to be done client side a PR update in other words like when it get updated to 1.0 i just want to get an idea on what people want before I start doing these things.
AI do not have the logic to spawn camp you just need to be logical in placing it so that no two bots walk past it in 2 minutes.
Deployment C4 is the same as co-op except for the armour penetration in other word it'll take down a tank.
Second edit also forgot the ammo bags option.

[Switch]

Yeah, you're right, there just aren't enough maps with logistics. Seeing how few people actually have the map pack, I doubt many would download the update.

[lupago]

You convinced me time ago xD, eventhough Switch has made his point, a lot of new player would leave, they are bad even with coop rules, i dont want to imagine what would happened to them with deployment rules xD.

One thing is certain, it will completely change the way we play, and it will require a level of cooperation we dont have actually with all the new guys we have.

[pigfarmer203]

all these points are very fatty...yes on the deployment stuff you want to add...it would get rid of the dead weight for shure but to make it more intresting do a sandy sunday where as we play desert maps on sunday and shorten the line up we havent made it past map 5 in a long time thanks all for the great game play

[Guest Sweeet5]

agree with Switch

[Pilgrim59]

well I suppose... the bigger the C4, the more fun :)

[=VG= Fastjack]

Incendiary grenades for most kits (linked to 9 key so if you spawn with a parachute you wont get an incendiary unless AR)

If u want , all kits can have an incendary and parachute. NO ONE need smokenades because they doesn't help vs bots.
make a clone of the incendary and give it the itemindex of the smokenades. !gamer

[=VG= kiwirambob]

How about some nukes...

[=VG= tankmaster58]

b29s

[Terremer]

Fastjack =VG= LAN_WROTE ...

If u want , all kits can have an incendary and parachute. NO ONE need smokenades because they doesn't help vs bots.
make a clone of the incendary and give it the itemindex of the smokenades. !gamer

this is actually a great idea, removing smoke from all kits except the officer in coop would be good to stop people throwing it all the time. incendiary would be good i guess but people seem to not know that it only goes 1 foot when you throw it and drop it at the feet of the entire squad.. its happened more than you think.

[Switch]

Terremer =VG= LAN_WROTE ...

Fastjack =VG= LAN_WROTE ...

If u want , all kits can have an incendary and parachute. NO ONE need smokenades because they doesn't help vs bots.
make a clone of the incendary and give it the itemindex of the smokenades. !gamer

this is actually a great idea, removing smoke from all kits except the officer in coop would be good to stop people throwing it all the time. incendiary would be good i guess but people seem to not know that it only goes 1 foot when you throw it and drop it at the feet of the entire squad.. its happened more than you think.

What if officers had the incendiary kit, it makes the most sense of instead of having to grab an AR everytime (although you should probably already have one in the squad.) But if you're in a 3 man squad (medic, rifleman, officer), there should be an officer in the squad.

[suomikeizari]

Dont take off the SL spawn! if you do the bots will be a lot easier due to not being able to reinforce so quickly

[=VG= Melon Muncher]

bots are able to spawn on squad lead not humans.
No squad lead spawn point (added to be only spawnable by AI units)
Same with the flag spawns AI spawn on most flags humans can't

[Terremer]

yeah that would be good considering you always have to drag that one AR over to blow up a crate when the officer could just do it himself.

[=VG= Fastjack]

In my opinion, we must remove the knife from the us medic kit too.
The medic is more an CQC unit and it makes no sense for me to draw a knife, "in melee range" if i can punch him with the m16a4 butt.

Another important thing: add to each map the commander arty. No one will play commander without toys.

[Terremer]

no one plays commander anyways cause no one wants to listen to him. you'd really need to have a pretty full server of dedicated people to have a commander running everyone. I and many others ive seen lead their squads as independent units, capping a point by themselves or defending. usually in coop at least its pretty obvious where you need to be or what to do and a commander isnt as important.

[xI_Yoda_Ix]

I like the idea of needing create to build and that everything has to be dug. No INSTA build.
I would also love a better ping so I think we should move the server to my house! :)

[=VG= Fastjack]

no one plays commander anyways cause no one wants to listen to him

That is one reason and maybe another reason is he haven't any asset like arty.
Use the game with all options he have for a better game experience. That's my point.
Golden rule for all generall things : It's better to have it but not use it than you need it but not have it!

A commander is an additional, usefully, option for the game and teamplay.
Playing with a 6 man squad and commander is awesome and i think our server have enough good people to have one day the commander as a standard.
Last time i played and noticed, that all SL players are in TS3 and dealing with other SL's and they doing it better than peoples on deployment servers.

The commander must not say the SL's what they must do (they allready know the game) but he can help to coordinate things like repair- or supply drops between the different squads. Thats all.

I personally sad about the missing arty on maps like fallujah, karbala, lashkar and especially on ramiel to kill the ZPU's.

But here an other suggestion

What all thinking about to give all flags, exceptions are the mainbases, the same supplyline ID?

That means : All flags can be captured but the mainbases are locked until all other flags are owned by the opponent team!
That also prevents the idle bots at some uncapable flags that often happens on karbala/carpark.
If are some bots at a flag that isn't a main - they can capture it !boss I hope that enhance the playtime and funfactor of an round.

Fastjack

[=VG= Melon Muncher]

What all thinking about to give all flags, exceptions are the mainbases, the same supplyline ID?

That means : All flags can be captured but the mainbases are locked until all other flags are owned by the opponent team!
That also prevents the idle bots at some uncapable flags that often happens on karbala/carpark.
If are some bots at a flag that isn't a main - he can capture it I hope that enhance the playtime and funfactor of an round.

The closest I can think of to this is street 2 and we all know how well that works. But if you had a map like ramiel where there are 10 flags all over the city (including mains) you wouldn't have enough men to defend every flag from 2 guys rolling around in a techie capping the fob then you get some guys to head to the fob you lose delta and so on aas was implemented to keep the fighting in mostly one spot the you cap you set up a defence and you assault the next flag imo that is how it should work. Another example kashan 4km map the bot commander tells the bots to assault the village as first flag humans steamroll them at village and cap bunkers while vehicles respawn. and if you still have strategic routes that tell the AI to assault the flags in an order then what happens is humans go to the ai's first flag cap it and stop the ai moving any further into the map.

I personally sad about the missing arty on maps like fallujah, karbala, lashkar and especially on ramiel to kill the ZPU's.

Ramiel has arty

no one plays commander anyways cause no one wants to listen to him. you'd really need to have a pretty full server of dedicated people to have a commander running everyone.

The commander also has the Team rally point which never expires and can spawn the whole team off it hardly ever used though but if you had no forward spawn points or squad lead spawn I'm sure it would get used more.

[=VG= Fastjack]

aas was implemented to keep the fighting in mostly one spot the you cap you set up a defence and you assault the next flag imo that is how it should work

Yupp true ..... for deployment.

Bots are hardcodded and u need a special mapstrategy to stop the "moving bots to uncapable flags" behaviour.
Additionally, excample ramiel: 2 cas choppers, multiple strykers/ humvees and one m2a2. That must handle a rolling techie crew.
It's only a question of teamwork.

The closest I can think of to this is street 2

Street 2 have a playground like 200m x 200m, the spawnpoints are to close to the next flags and the map have no vehicles, it have short viewdistance, heavy fog and bad light conditions.
U cannot compare street2 and ramiel because this maps are totally different from gameplay design.

[=VG= Melon Muncher]

excample ramiel: 2 cas choppers, multiple strykers/ humvees and one m2a2. That must handle a rolling techie crew.

On a full server mabyer but what about when you have under 15 guys and you cant finish the map because you are too busy trying to defend, retake, and assault flags. you may have an m2a2 but it's too busy trying to defend the mosque, the apache and kiowa cant capture any flags and are too busy trying to avoid ZPU fire and rpg's then it's down to the one infantry squad who have 3 flags they are trying to defend to then assault a forth. it would just be nosense and turn it into vanilla BF2.

[=VG= Fastjack]

Nonsense in ur opinion but not in my (in my opinion ur airspawner on barentz is nonsense) .. but do what u want i do what i want .... allcomes good